Why no straight answers?

[Zzyzx]

.
After eight years debating here I have YET to encounter a defender of fundamentalism / literalism / traditionalism (or the Bible in general) who will openly, accurately, honestly answer fundamental questions about Christian beliefs " including the following (with truthful answers in bold font)

What verifiable evidence exists (beyond Bible tales and claims, opinions, testimonials and speculation) to substantiate that:

Jesus was anything more than human? None

Humans possess a soul? None

An afterlife exists? None

Miracles described in Bible tales actually occurred? None

Any of the claimed events such as floods, earthquakes, darkening sky, star stopping, Earth ceasing rotation, etc occurred as described? None

God intercedes in human affairs or life events? None

Bible writers were actually inspired by God? None



Why no answers? Could it be refusal to admit that in the absence of verifiable information, accepting the basic beliefs of Christianity must be based on "Take my (or his) word for it" and that doing so is not a rational basis for making decisions on matters of importance?

[OnceConvinced]

Have you, or is this just a classic case of windbag self-inflation?

Once again, you're way off base. You need to get you facts straight before you shoot off your mouth.

What patent crap ...

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[beeswax]

The local Salvation Army Pastor appeared on a small film clip showing her with a man who had been helped with clean clothes and shower facilities which is fine and then she dropped the bombshell..."We do it because Christ, told us to"

I wanted to ask her..."You mean, you wouldn't think of doing that anyway"?

Making the same point that people do NOT have to have any religious faith to do good works and in some ways its more (can't think of the word?) because they do it for their fellow man without seeking any reward in heaven...Maybe that was the weakness in the Gospels? Why love God first and then each other second and not the other way around?

[tam]

[Replying to post 144 by tam]

I never said it because it was not relevant. What evidence is there to corroborate some things... is what the question of the OP asked.

It is relevant. You can't go around saying "These things that all the other cultures have, because they have them and my culture has them, that verifies my culture's beliefs". You have to look at the opposite claim too. What if it's their dis-similarities that dis-proves your culture/religion/belief? You didn't consider that.
The Roman pantheon of gods is a blatant rip-off of the Greek pantheon. Does that mean that if I should meet a follower of Jupiter, he'd be correct in saying "Because the Greeks have Zeus, who is virtually identical to Jupiter, that means Jupiter exists!"?

Well actually I did speak to the differences. I said they all had kernels of truth, surrounded by misconception, falsehoods, traditions of men, religion:

tam said: Yes, the kernel of truth became surrounded by lies, because that is what religions and men DO. They take a bit of truth, and due to their own misunderstandings (or corruption of certain men), surround that truth with legends, lies, false understanding, etc... creating a man-made religion that confuses and misleads. That is what religion does. Makes people captive to men, to lies, to the one who gives religion its authority. I digress..

Even the flood is written about in various other cultures and times. The details are not all the same, and I really don't think that is surprising considering how long ago it was, and the method of recording. But this flood is still spoken of in other cultures.

As I said originally... food for thought. Chew on it or not, as you see fit.

Peace.

[OnceConvinced]

Christ is not a religion. Men built a religion around Him. But it is not from Him.

I would actually point out this scripture here:

Jam 1:26 & 27 If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Are you saying that this is not what Christ would want? If it is, then even the bible declares that Christianity is a religion. So when a Christian group does charitable acts they're actually practicing the religion that James speaks of here.

Also don't forget that Jesus insisted that we conduct religious rituals like prayer, baptism and communion. So I don't think you can claim that Christ or Christianity is not a religion. It is so full of religious rituals that Jesus and Paul endorsed, it's not funny.

[Zzyzx]

.

Even the flood is written about in various other cultures and times. The details are not all the same, and I really don't think that is surprising considering how long ago it was, and the method of recording. But this flood is still spoken of in other cultures.

Of course flood tales are common in many cultures because floods are common in lowlands, river valleys, flood plains, coastal areas. However, that does NOT match the Genesis account of a worldwide flood "to the tops of mountains" wiping out all animal life on Earth save those on the Ark.

Consider this Tam. If a flood killed everyone but Noah and crew, WHO in various cultures knew about and recorded "The Flood"? They were all dead according to the tale.

Isn't it more rational to consider the flood tale as folklore, myth, legend, religious storytelling?

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 152 by beeswax]

Making the same point that people do NOT have to have any religious faith to do good works and in some ways its more (can't think of the word?) because they do it for their fellow man without seeking any reward in heaven...Maybe that was the weakness in the Gospels? Why love God first and then each other second and not the other way around?

While you may be correct in that one does not have to be religious , or in the case we are talking , a "Christian" , to do good deeds . That is not the point. The point is that most of those in the worst places on earth to help out as volunteers, are of the Christian faith . That point has been disputed here , but not with one successful answer of who else is at these ground zeroes of disease and war , except for so,e that were recruited by a Christian organization.

This shows with overwhelming example that faith in the bible does create strength and fortitude, as this is the whole motivation of Christians, which is to put others ,,before themselves because their faith calls for it .

This example is happening as we speak.

The bible commands Christians to love one another, non Christians also , so the gospel has that covered already .

[OnceConvinced]

.

Even the flood is written about in various other cultures and times. The details are not all the same, and I really don't think that is surprising considering how long ago it was, and the method of recording. But this flood is still spoken of in other cultures.

Of course flood tales are common in many cultures because floods are common in lowlands, river valleys, flood plains, coastal areas. However, that does NOT match the Genesis account of a worldwide flood "to the tops of mountains" wiping out all animal life on Earth save those on the Ark.

Consider this Tam. If a flood killed everyone but Noah and crew, WHO in various cultures knew about and recorded "The Flood"? They were all dead according to the tale.

Really using the argument that Tam is using undermines the bible completely. If it was a worldwide flood there would have been no tales of this flood from other parts of the world, as they would have all been wiped out themselves, so nobody would been around to tell the tale.

If it was a world wide flood then the stories must have come from one specific location spread by the survivors, ie, Noah and his family. Which still does not prove a world wide flood, just that good stories spread around the globe.

If other cultures witnessed the flood and then there were survivors, then the bible tale is completely wrong about Noah and his family being the only survivors. It then means that the flood did not cover the entire world as the bible claims.

[Faithful One]

[Replying to post 143 by beeswax]

Lastly, its a repeated claim by Christians that when Jesus comes back 'everyone' will see him and 'everyone' will bow and that the name of a fabulous Christian hymn we all know..'At the name of Jesus'!

According to revelations and other books, Jesus will come with the clouds. Clouds seem to have a good way of getting around the world. This is not just a "claim of Christians", this is simply what the bible states will happen.what makes you say everyone will now ? According to the bible , their will be many unrepentant when he returns, I hardly doubt they will know this hymn.

Maybe Jesus has revealed to you HOW this can happen?

Yes , and now you know

As a Deist, I can believe in a Creator God but no human being that claimed to be God or Son of God who had special powers in order to convert the world. Because WHY aren't those same powers available to anyone since and no miracles like he did since? Jesus said "Greater things ye shall do, than I have" including raising the dead, remember and so its a fair question to ANYONE that believes Jesus can't tell a lie. How come nobody in living memory or in the last 1950 years did ANY of those miracles as promised by Jesus?

These miracles happen daily , we can bring the dead back, maybe not in a divine sense , but we have the power to bring back life. Life has been witnessed to be at its undeniable end and come back. These miracles do happen..

[Zzyzx]

.

According to revelations and other books, Jesus will come with the clouds. Clouds seem to have a good way of getting around the world. This is not just a "claim of Christians", this is simply what the bible states will happen.what makes you say everyone will now ? According to the bible , their will be many unrepentant when he returns, I hardly doubt they will know this hymn.

Yes, according to Bible tales all sorts of supernatural things happen. Other books make comparable claims. What they have in common is LACK of any evidence that they are truthful and accurate.

Accepting such tales is a matter of "faith" by believers. Notice that many who debate here are not religious and do not accept such tales as anything more than myth, legend, folklore or religion promotion.

Tales that are accepted and acceptable in church or in Holy Huddle are NOT acceptable in these debates as anything more than meaningless, unverifiable opinions and conjectures.

Maybe Jesus has revealed to you HOW this can happen?

Yes , and now you know

Yet another unsupportable claim / conjecture / opinion / testimonial

[Hamsaka]

[Replying to post 135 by Zzyzx]

Correction: Many individuals, corporations, nations, and international organizations (such as UNICEF) sponsor on-site help in dangerous parts of the world

This does not put them at ground zero where we are 100% sure that the Christians are there . So I will ask you , the same as others who had no answer , what group is by their side in these war torn cities hospitals in the middle of a civil war? What other group or religion is with them in the malaria filled jungles ? What other group or individual or religion are with them in the badlands of the ME ?

I do not know of any, or else I would name them.

There has been no specific answer of any individual group , we have the MSF in certain circumstances, but that was grown from a Christian organization. So can we name another besides this group ? That probably is at least 70% Christian anyhow.

Wow, this little tangent sure took off!

At this point Faithful One, it is on you to show you speak the truth. You've been given pages of refutation for your claim that only Christians are putting themselves in the trenches. No matter what secular humanitarian organization is mentioned to you, you've been freely claiming this:

This does not put them at ground zero where we are 100% sure that the Christians are there

Please show that 100% of the time, "Christians" are 'there'. That really shouldn't be difficult to do with a bit of internet research. You've yet to do that.

It makes me wonder if your basis for saying such a thing is the same faith you claim to be the very purpose of Jesus' message of salvation. If you really do have evidence to support your 100% Christians-in-the-trenches is true, that leaves NO room for any other religious based organizations, much less secular based ones, which is a mighty claim indeed. If you just have 'faith' that your claim is true, please say so, as you've already done several pages ago in response to the OP.