What is truth

[Blastcat]

Hi guys and gals,

This one goes out to all of my theistic friends.
Apologists and simple Christian folks often talk about knowing "truth" a lot.. but now, I have to wonder what they mean by the term.

Could you help me out?
What is the truth, how do you define it, and do you care about it?

Some people don't care about the truth.
Some people say they love the truth, and that their beliefs are true.

Then I realize.. maybe I don't know what they MEAN when they use the word "TRUTH"

Smile

[tam]

Hi guys and gals,

This one goes out to all of my theistic friends.
Apologists and simple Christian folks often talk about knowing "truth" a lot.. but now, I have to wonder what they mean by the term.

Could you help me out?
What is the truth, how do you define it, and do you care about it?

Some people don't care about the truth.
Some people say they love the truth, and that their beliefs are true.

Then I realize.. maybe I don't know what they MEAN when they use the word "TRUTH"

Smile

It has always bothered me when folks say "Jesus IS the truth" . It would be better, imo, if it was said that "Jesus TELLS the truth.

"Jesus is the truth" sounds circular to me.

Truth being more commonly understood as what is "real and factual".

Peace to you EJ!

I am one of those who says/writes that Christ is the Truth. I can no longer say/write that [Jesus] is the truth, not after having learned that [Jesus] is not His true name. Perhaps that will somewhat answer the OP's question on how much I care about truth.

I agree with you that it is accurate to state that Christ does speak truth, but that it is also accurate to say that Christ is the Truth; where Christ is the Truth of God. Hence, "see Christ, see God. Know Christ, know God".

So that is what I mean when I say/write Truth (captial T).

What I mean when I say/write truth (non-capital t) is... that which is real and accurate. That which is true (real, accurate) regardless of what we personally believe/perceive/understand. So that truth does not change; only our understanding of it changes.


Peace again, and to all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 9 by Elijah John]

Ironic, in that many believers preach against subjectivism and preach that truth is objective and eternal.

Yes, very much so!
Post-modern thinking is very very messy.

I agree that truth is objective and eternal, but our apprehension of it, our understanding of it, and our interpretation of truth, is often subjective.

Hmmm I don't know what you mean by truth is eternal... how is that?
There is what we could call objective truth... like the way mountains seem to be pretty objectively true out there.. And there are what we could call subjective truths, like our emotional REACTIONS to the mountain.... I think that when people are talking about God.. they are talking about subjective reactions to an idea of some kind or another.

So. there can be two kinds of truths.. one personal and subjective, referring to emotions, and objective truths that are more about facts that we can verify and quantify.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 10 by JehovahsWitness]

On a scale of 0 to 100, where 0 is you don't care at all about truth in any way, and 100 would be you could not possibly care MORE about the truth.

I think that's really important to know.

Sure I care about truth. Your scale is silly, I'm not in kindergarden I won't give you a number.

You're welcome,

JW

Don't worry about the scale, it's just a way for me to understand you a bit better. It's just that some people might care about truth more than others. You might be 50 to 100% now, and I wouldn't know. But... I'll go with that.

If I ever re-do the thread, I will ask how much people believe on that scale and explain that they don't need to use it, it's just a tool for better understanding.

So, you care about the truth, and I'm happy to hear it.
I have other questions then, if you don't mind:

So, how do you know that your beliefs are true?
Why do you think they happen to be true?

What method do you use to find out?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 11 by tam]

Hi tam,

How does Truth relate to truth?

I am one of those who says/writes that Christ is the Truth. I can no longer say/write that [Jesus] is the truth, not after having learned that [Jesus] is not His true name. Perhaps that will somewhat answer the OP's question on how much I care about truth.

What.. is he hiding his name or something?

I agree with you that it is accurate to state that Christ does speak truth, but that it is also accurate to say that Christ is the Truth; where Christ is the Truth of God. Hence, "see Christ, see God. Know Christ, know God".

So that is what I mean when I say/write Truth (captial T).

Ok, I have LITERALLY no idea what you mean by that.
Sorry, tam.

I know it looks like English. But to me, it's word salad.
Could you maybe TRANSLATE ?

What I mean when I say/write truth (non-capital t) is... that which is real and accurate. That which is true (real, accurate) regardless of what we personally believe/perceive/understand. So that truth does not change; only our understanding of it changes.

Ok, well, your small t truth definition makes sense, at least.
It seems that you have two kinds of definitions.. one for "Truth" with a capital letter for Christ, Jesus, that secret special name, God.. whatever. That one, I have NO idea what you MEAN.

The normal every day truth.. I get it.

So, it looks to me that when you talk about the "Truth of God" it would be gibberish to the likes of me. Maybe you can TRY to explain what you MEAN by Truth and how that relates to truth.

I don't get it.

[tam]

[Replying to post 14 by Blastcat]

Perhaps this will help somewhat with what I mean:

Christ is what is "real and accurate and true" about God.


Hence, one may look at Christ to see God. Hence, if one knows Christ, then one knows God. Because Christ is the Truth (of God). He is the perfect representation (the true image and reflection) of God.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[marco]

What is the truth, how do you define it, and do you care about it?

According to Keats, beauty is truth and truth beauty. According to marco truth is what one discovers on finding the correct solution to a mathematical problem.

Looking for truth in the Bible is similar to examining an ink blot. You find what your mind wants you to find. It has all the appearance of truth but I don't believe it is.

When you have an intimate discussion with a friend you get close to subjective truth and may even experience what religious folk experience after an act of contrition.

The truth is rarely pure and never simple: Oscar Wilde

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 15 by tam]


tam,

I've just about given up trying to GUESS what you mean all the time. Be clear, or I will simply say I DON'T GET IT.

And right now, AGAIN, I don't get a WORD of what you're trying to say.
You might as well be babbling.

Perhaps this will help somewhat with what I mean:

Christ is what is "real and accurate and true" about God.

I'm not trying to be difficult.

BUT.. What does that MEAN?

How is Christ what is REAL AND ACCURATE AND TRUE about God. God isn't true by himself? I just do not get what you MEAN. And NOW, you aren't using the capital T so, I'm THOROUGHLY confused.

Hence, one may look at Christ to see God.

Well, if there the SAME THING.. three in one or whatever.. I GUESS SO!!

Hence, if one knows Christ, then one knows God.

Three in one is the deal,
RIGHT? Know ONE, know all three.

I have NO idea what you mean if you say any of that is true. NO IDEA how you use the word "true". So, as far as I'm concerned, I can't TALK to you about what the word "truth" means.

But it's ok, there are other theists out there.

Because Christ is the Truth (of God). He is the perfect representation (the true image and reflection) of God.

What is Christ.. a MIRROR?... I don't GET IT TAM

the more you EXPLAIN, the more I get CONFUSED.
This just wont work.

It's like we aren't talking the same language.
A slave is a GOOD thing to be... and truth is.. CHRIST ...

This to me is BABBLING.

[Blastcat]

What is the truth, how do you define it, and do you care about it?

According to Keats, beauty is truth and truth beauty. According to marco truth is what one discovers on finding the correct solution to a mathematical problem.

So, outside of math, you don't believe in truth ?
I was talking about propositional truths, though.. and they can be broken down into logic .. which is kinda mathy, in my opinion.

[marco]

So, outside of math, you don't believe in truth ?

That doesn't necessarily follow from the example I gave to illustrate truth. An example isn't a generality. But when we depart from the purity of mathematics then truth is something that is possibly agreed upon, seen as always holding water. When we report on a past act then we often get very close to a truth. Waterloo took place in 1815. This is true.

It was raining today is, from my situation, true but may not be from yours. Truth therefore can be relative.

Socrates was a clever man. This might almost be regarded as true but Socrates himself denied it.

[tam]

Perhaps this will help somewhat with what I mean:

Christ is what is "real and accurate and true" about God.

I'm not trying to be difficult.

BUT.. What does that MEAN?

How is Christ what is REAL AND ACCURATE AND TRUE about God. God isn't true by himself? I just do not get what you MEAN. And NOW, you aren't using the capital T so, I'm THOROUGHLY confused.

Captial T truth refers to Christ. Like you would capitalize a name or a title: Christ; or Son of God; or the Life; or the Word; or the Holy Spirit, etc.

Hence, one may look at Christ to see God.

Well, if there the SAME THING.. three in one or whatever.. I GUESS SO!!

If you recall, I have told you that I have no reason to believe in the trinity, so I do not believe in it.

So no three-in-one deal.

God is the Father
Christ is the Son


Christ shows us God, because Christ is the perfect representation (truth) of God.

As opposed to the bible being claimed as the truth of God; or Israel being claimed as the truth of God; or nature being claimed as the truth of God; or religion being claimed as the truth of God.

None of those things can reveal God to us in truth. Only Christ can do this.

Hence, if one knows Christ, then one knows God.

Three in one is the deal,
RIGHT? Know ONE, know all three.

I have NO idea what you mean if you say any of that is true. NO IDEA how you use the word "true". So, as far as I'm concerned, I can't TALK to you about what the word "truth" means.

But it's ok, there are other theists out there.

There are, that is true enough. You seem to have no problem with the meaning of little 't' truth. But only Truth when it refers to Christ. Perhaps there is another out there who can explain it to you better than I am able, in a way that is clear to you.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy