Is Jesus God ?!!

[mms20102]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

[Elijah John]

How can Jesus obey its like saying god created himself to obey himself now what is the purpose of god to incarnate himself why he didn't just send a messenger with miracles and if u can go through the bible u will find that Jesus always refer to his father not himself.

I thought I already explained that. Christ possessed all of the aspects proper to H. sapiens (in addition to deity.) His obedience to Father as a human would reboot man’s nature which was corrupted by disobedience to God. That was the only reason he needed to obey as a human.

Does Christ's supposed Divinity then, necessitate the existence of a literal Adam and Eve, and a literal "Fall/Garden story?

Does the whole doctrine of the hypostatic union collapse like a house of cards if the Garden story is only myth or allegory?

No Adam, no Christ/man, subservient-to-the-Father but still himself "God"?

[Elijah John]

First verse is " By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work " Gensis 2

now this verse goes back to first question what is the qualification of god can god rest and can got get tired " my opinion" > God is immortal so there no God can rest nor die

I agree that God was not born, nor can He die. Jesus died, so he cannot be God.

Also, regarding the notion of "God resting" that too should be read as metaphorical.

Remember, Jesus said the "Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath".

If one wants to expand the metaphor, the Sabbath is symbolic for the "resting" phases built into many aspects of Creation.

Night time, Winter, exhaling, etc. It is not God who needs the rest, but His Creation, mankind etc.

[JLB32168]

Does Christ's supposed Divinity then, necessitate the existence of a literal Adam and Eve, and a literal "Fall/Garden story?

A literal Adam and Eve are necessary. The specifics of the Garden of Eden might be metaphorical. The only thing that the EO Church has dogmatized are the existence of Adam and Eve.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 20 by JLB32168]

Hey, JLB32168

You're on a roll, don't stop now

How can Jesus obey its like saying god created himself to obey himself now what is the purpose of god to incarnate himself why he didn't just send a messenger with miracles and if u can go through the bible u will find that Jesus always refer to his father not himself.

I thought I already explained that. Christ possessed all of the aspects proper to H. sapiens (in addition to deity.) His obedience to Father as a human would reboot man’s nature which was corrupted by disobedience to God. That was the only reason he needed to obey as a human.

That's interesting.

Christ obeys due to his HUMAN nature... and when he DOES obey.. what happens to his GOD nature?

He pretends it's not there? He switches back and forth from human to god?
Any ideas about that?

[JLB32168]

That's interesting. Christ obeys due to his HUMAN nature... and when he DOES obey.. what happens to his GOD nature?

Nothing happens to it. I’m not sure why it’s a part of the discussion on how his humanity is ontologically joined to all human existence just as Adam’s was, which is why Adam’s disobedience negatively affected man by introducing death while Christ’s human obedience did the opposite – destroyed the permanence of its power.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 25 by JLB32168]

That's interesting. Christ obeys due to his HUMAN nature... and when he DOES obey.. what happens to his GOD nature?

Nothing happens to it.

So, why does Christ who is a GOD act like a HUMAN when it comes time to OBEY and not LIKE a GOD, instead?

As a GOD.. he has no CHOICE in the matter?... or... is this all SYMBOLIC or what... what is he TRYING TO PROVE?

( and as an atheist, I have to ask how can we prove ANY OF THIS is true, by the way? )

I’m not sure why it’s a part of the discussion on how his humanity is ontologically joined to all human existence

Ontologically joined.

He is also ONTOLOGICALLY JOINED to BEING GOD. So, why does he act like a god in some circumstances, and not in others?

Because you say so?

just as Adam’s was, which is why Adam’s disobedience negatively affected man

IF you mean that whatever SOME human does WE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE as a HUMAN RACE.. I think that's an absurd idea. I don't HAPPEN to feel guilty for the misdeeds of others, thank you very much. I have ENOUGH of my OWN to take care of.

So, that idea is worthy of nothing better than the TRASH BIN... where I dropped it off about 50 years ago. When I was a YOUNG BOY. ( ok, I was pre-teen, but you get the picture )

I had WAY more moral sense than this ADAM and EVE rationalization. It smacks of the kind of thinking that leads to UNTOUCHABLES in Hindu culture. Someone poorly off DESERVES IT.. to which I say... BLEH. BS.

Prove your "ORIGINAL SIN" or your "REINCARNATION" or whatever.. .THEN I will believe that people "deserve" to be punished for something they DIDN'T DO.

by introducing death

That's an interesting interpretation of the story.

In MY interpretation, Adam and Eve didn't INTRODUCE DEATH... it was God who did that. Adam and Eve wanted to know stuff. They didn't want to INTRODUCE death. Death was a punishment that GOD dreamed up... according to the story.

You remember the story, dontcha?

while Christ’s human obedience did the opposite – destroyed the permanence of its power.

Let's say ( FTSOTA ) that ALL of this is true... how did that happen... By MAGIC?
And why not just say "Abracadabra" and not have to go through all of the DRAMA.

We would have been disengaged from the "permanence of death" without all of the HOOPLAH.. but why do believers need the hooplah? Don't they just need FAITH?

AND..... since I'm an atheist I HAVE TO ASK you why on earth would anyone BELIEVE that stuff? After all, it's just a story.

And to me, a crazy one.
But, how some people choose to INTERPRET the stories is even WILDER, SUBJECTIVE, and just plain WEIRD to me. I guess that's what happens when we REALLY try to make sense out the stories.

Maybe just ONE story makes sense, but to try to make all of them COHERENT.. is a task I don't envy the religious. Especially when there are pesky people like ME who are not just agreeing all the time.

Must be harsh.

[JLB32168]

So, why does Christ who is a GOD act like a HUMAN when it comes time to OBEY and not LIKE a GOD, instead?

Christ is not just God. He is also God and Adam#2. As Adam #2, he must undo what Adam #1 did. Christ’s divinity didn’t have to eat; however, he was also human. His humanity required food. The immaterial deity remained unchanging.

As a GOD.. he has no CHOICE in the matter?... or... is this all SYMBOLIC or what... what is he TRYING TO PROVE?

If God was to affect a change in man, he had to become a man and do the exact opposite of what the first mad did. I assume that God could have done things another way but that the way he did it accomplished the highest good.

(and as an atheist, I have to ask how can we prove ANY OF THIS is true, by the way?)

Then why in the Hello should any atheist ask any theological question in the first place? Just simply cut to the chase as it done on each and every thread on this board by an atheist – say “There’s no credible evidence that stupid deities even exist so all of this discussion is equally stupid.�

He is also ONTOLOGICALLY JOINED to BEING GOD. So, why does he act like a god in some circumstances, and not in others?

Because he can?? I don’t know. I don’t see why the question is important either.

Because you say so?

Why do you ask these questions if you don’t want the explanation of the theology? I’ll refer you to my third response.

IF you mean that whatever SOME human does WE ALL ARE RESPONSIBLE as a HUMAN RACE. I think that's an absurd idea.

Okay. I’m not sure why I should care, but okay.

Prove your "ORIGINAL SIN" . . .

I don’t believe in Original Sin. I’m Eastern Orthodox.

In MY interpretation, Adam and Eve didn't INTRODUCE DEATH... it was God who did that.

You’re free to do that but death as a punishment, much less a punishment sent from God, isn’t in the text. You need to go back and read it again.

Let's say ( FTSOTA ) that ALL of this is true... how did that happen... By MAGIC?

Yup. Why not do it another way? It must not have been the highest good. You don’t have to believe that. You can reject it as an atheist. After all, I reject the absolutely beyond idiotic notion that the universe/we are a product of random chance.

We would have been disengaged from the "permanence of death" without all of the HOOPLAH.. but why do believers need the hooplah? Don't they just need FAITH?

Now you’re just getting nasty so I stopped reading at the word “FAITH.� Thus far you've gotten answers to your question that seem to explain the theology well and you're gettin' mad since you're just ridiculing my rebuttal rather than actually engaging it.

Oh well - I can't be bothered.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 26 by Blastcat]


Moderator Comment

Hi Blastcat!

I am not giving a warning, since I gave a warning for a similar post on another thread. I will remind you that your words and tone are not very kind, and once again, offensive language clearly violates forum rules.

I would strongly advise to leave colorful language and offensive tones out of the picture.

Please review the Rules.


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[Tired of the Nonsense]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

Jesus is DEAD. One of the qualifications of God should be that the god not be dead. The problem that we encounter here is that no god can actually be established to be living. All we have are rumors and innuendo.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 29 by Tired of the Nonsense]

God can do what he wants. He can be dead, a ball bearing, Krishna, Zeus, a bowl of banana pudding. He is not limited by anyone's imagination, or for that matter, constrained by any band of humanities beliefs about him.

He can be trinity, duodecinity, or exist as the whole universe. It's not what you believe about it, but vice-versa.