How many REAL Christians?

[Zzyzx]

.
Christians are said to represent 70% of the US population. However, many Christians who debate here (and speak elsewhere) declare that some fellow Christians are Not REAL Christians. Since there is no consensus in Christendom regarding requirements / criteria for real status, individuals and groups seem inclined to make up whatever suits their position " and apply their opinion in judging fellow Christians.

A self-declared REAL Christian Protestant may declare that Catholics are not real while RCC may say the Protestants are not " thus eliminating each other. Some posters deny real status to Eastern Orthodox, LDS, JW, 7th Day, Amish, Holy Rollers, Snake Handlers, Westboro Baptist, KKK, and/or other sects / denominations / groups " based on their personal opinion.

A cumulative total of sects denied real status seems to eliminate nearly every Christian (except the speaker's chosen sect, of course). How many are left? Would 5% or 10% be a good guess? If so, that would be LESS than the percentage of the US population who declare no religious affiliation (20%) including Atheists (2%) and Agnostics (3%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligio ... ted_States

It should be kept in mind that Christians are not truthful in surveys about church attendance. Forty percent tell surveyors they attend regularly while church attendance statistics indicate that only 20% actually attend.

Can the 20% who actually attend church regularly be considered REAL Christians? If so their numbers about equal the no religious affiliation group. Are some regular attendees NOT Real Christians (but attend church for appearances, under duress, or whatever)? Are some who do not attend church actually Real Christians? How are such matters decided? What individual or group is authorized to judge?

Does the whole issue seem like a schoolyard inclusion / exclusion game?

[FiremanWes77]

[Replying to post 20 by Zzyzx]

I will attempt to answer this question without preaching as much as possible. There are many professing "Christians" and I believe the bible states quite well the criteria of one. Only those who are Christians can know if they are. I believe we can get an idea about people but one can not truly know someone elses heart.

Zz, you want a definition of regeneration. That is something you just cant explain in earthly terms..you just cant. To be born again is to be risen from your spiritually dead state

Ephesians 2
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience" 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ"

To be made alive in Christ is to be regenerated, and ONLY God can grant regeneration and repentance. No one walking this earth one day took a look at himself and said "you know, this stuff Iim doing is an abomination to God, I think I will choose to deny myself and take sides with God." To be born again is for God to "take out your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh" Ezekiel 36:26.

A real Christian relies completely on the finished work of Christ, and ackowledges His full Deity or equality with the Father. A real Christian realizes as Isaiah said, " my best righteousness is as filthy rags." A real Christian realizes no amount of works will get you into heaven. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23.

Although they will still sin, their heart will contiueously feel conviction for the sin. We sin because we are sinners, opposite of what many think..were sinners because we sin. The bent of a Christians life will be a contious evolving change towards the ways of God.

As far as how many, I would say WAAAAYYY less than you see in Churches. Narrow is the gate, and few that will find it - Matthew 7;14.

[marco]

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience" 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ"

This nonsense about sin and more sin and mercy and further sin has no place in a civilised culture. People who go about their lives, paying their debts, rearing their families and enjoying or suffering life should not be involved with this rubbish about "sin". One of the biggest "sins" is gullibility and believing in primitive superstitions. We surely have enough problems to solve without worrying whether we have made the angels weep.

[FiremanWes77]

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience" 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ"

This nonsense about sin and more sin and mercy and further sin has no place in a civilised culture. People who go about their lives, paying their debts, rearing their families and enjoying or suffering life should not be involved with this rubbish about "sin". One of the biggest "sins" is gullibility and believing in primitive superstitions. We surely have enough problems to solve without worrying whether we have made the angels weep.

So are you going to tell me I'm ugly and cant read good next? Did I call you an ignorant hell bound heathen for dismissing the God of the universe? No, I didn't. This is a conversation about population of "real" Christians. Lets leave the insults out of here. I believe what I believe, and you don't believe what you don't believe.

If you don't believe in sin, then so what? What is it to you if I do? I'm not thumping you on the head with a bible. I would think that if your willing to jump onto a forum and debate with Christians, in which I find very few of, then you would be willing to hear the words Sin, Hell, Wrath and Vengeance!?! I'm sure your more than willing to accept kindness, love, patience, charity and many other things the Christian community provides. I would be willing to say the last time you saw Christian charity feeding hungry children you had nothing hateful to say to those horrible Christians.

[Zzyzx]

.

I believe we can get an idea about people but one can not truly know someone elses heart.

Thus, no one can know which individuals are REAL Christians. Right?

Zz, you want a definition of regeneration. That is something you just cant explain in earthly terms..you just cant.

Why would anyone attempt to explain what they admittedly cannot explain?

To be born again is to be risen from your spiritually dead state

This assumes a spiritually dead state " which is nothing more than a religious opinion.

A real Christian relies completely on the finished work of Christ, and ackowledges His full Deity or equality with the Father.

In other words a REAL Christian must be a Trinitarian " so all of the following are not REAL Christians. Right?

Adoptivi
American Unitarian Association
American Unitarian Conference
Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God
Arianism
Associated Brotherhood of Christian
Catholic Christian Church
Chiesa Cristiana in Italia
Christadelphians
Christian Science
Church of God (Seventh-Day)
Church of God General Conference
Church of God International (United States)
Church of God, a Worldwide Association
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
Church of the Blessed Hope
Ebionites
Familia Caritatis
General Church of the New Jerusalem
Iglesia ni Cristo
Intercontinental Church of God
Israelite Church of God in Jesus Christ
Jehovah's Witnesses
Lord's New Church Which Is Nova Hierosolyma
La Luz del Mundo
Megiddo Church
Members Church of God International
Mormonism
Most Holy Church of God in Christ Jesus
Nazarene fellowship
The New Church
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
Polish Brethren
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ
Sect of Skhariya the Jew
Subbotniks
Two by Twos
Unification Church
Unitarian Church of Transylvania
United Church of God
United Pentecostal Church International
The Way International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... ominations

It is useful to note that the Trinity is NOT found in the Bible and the Christian church did not decide about the Trinity until late Fourth Century (1 Constantinople with adoption of The creed of Nicaea).

A real Christian realizes no amount of works will get you into heaven.

There seems to be disagreement in Christendom concerning the faith vs. works issue. Can we throw out of the REAL Christian club all denominations / scholars / theologians / individuals who favor salvation by works?

Although they will still sin, their heart will contiueously feel conviction for the sin. We sin because we are sinners, opposite of what many think..were sinners because we sin. The bent of a Christians life will be a contious evolving change towards the ways of God.

Is it beneficial in life for one to consider themselves a sinner?

As far as how many, I would say WAAAAYYY less than you see in Churches. Narrow is the gate, and few that will find it - Matthew 7;14.

Would it be fair to say that many who debate here seemingly convinced that they are among the chosen (or through the gate or whatever) are quite likely to be badly mistaken -- and all their pious platitudes are wasted.

[marco]

So are you going to tell me I'm ugly and cant read good next? Did I call you an ignorant hell bound heathen for dismissing the God of the universe? No, I didn't. This is a conversation about population of "real" Christians. Lets leave the insults out of here. I believe what I believe, and you don't believe what you don't believe.

If you revisit my post you will notice it was entirely about Ephesians 2 and said nothing about you. I assume that when a biblical verse is posted, one is invited to comment on it, else why post it?

I accept there is evil in the world. But obsession with sin and causing perfectly decent people to repent is the philosophy of a bygone age, or so I opine. In no way am I attacking Christians - simply this dismal edict from Ephesians.

[Elijah John]

So are you going to tell me I'm ugly and cant read good next? Did I call you an ignorant hell bound heathen for dismissing the God of the universe? No, I didn't. This is a conversation about population of "real" Christians. Lets leave the insults out of here. I believe what I believe, and you don't believe what you don't believe.

If you don't believe in sin, then so what? What is it to you if I do? I'm not thumping you on the head with a bible. I would think that if your willing to jump onto a forum and debate with Christians, in which I find very few of, then you would be willing to hear the words Sin, Hell, Wrath and Vengeance!?! I'm sure your more than willing to accept kindness, love, patience, charity and many other things the Christian community provides. I would be willing to say the last time you saw Christian charity feeding hungry children you had nothing hateful to say to those horrible Christians.

Moderator Comment

Hi Wes...

Your comments here are needlessly defensive, and uncivil in tone. Marco was not attacking you, rather he was being critical of some Biblical notions. Fair game on a debating site.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[H.sapiens]

.
Christians are said to represent 70% of the US population. However, many Christians who debate here (and speak elsewhere) declare that some fellow Christians are Not REAL Christians. Since there is no consensus in Christendom regarding requirements / criteria for real status, individuals and groups seem inclined to make up whatever suits their position " and apply their opinion in judging fellow Christians.

A self-declared REAL Christian Protestant may declare that Catholics are not real while RCC may say the Protestants are not " thus eliminating each other. Some posters deny real status to Eastern Orthodox, LDS, JW, 7th Day, Amish, Holy Rollers, Snake Handlers, Westboro Baptist, KKK, and/or other sects / denominations / groups " based on their personal opinion.

A cumulative total of sects denied real status seems to eliminate nearly every Christian (except the speaker's chosen sect, of course). How many are left? Would 5% or 10% be a good guess? If so, that would be LESS than the percentage of the US population who declare no religious affiliation (20%) including Atheists (2%) and Agnostics (3%). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligio ... ted_States

It should be kept in mind that Christians are not truthful in surveys about church attendance. Forty percent tell surveyors they attend regularly while church attendance statistics indicate that only 20% actually attend.

Can the 20% who actually attend church regularly be considered REAL Christians? If so their numbers about equal the no religious affiliation group. Are some regular attendees NOT Real Christians (but attend church for appearances, under duress, or whatever)? Are some who do not attend church actually Real Christians? How are such matters decided? What individual or group is authorized to judge?

Does the whole issue seem like a schoolyard inclusion / exclusion game?

I suspect that if you query several thousand self-identified Christians and applied set theory to the results using the assumption that all are correct you will find that there are no REAL CHRISTIANS to be found. I thought I had one cornered once, but then I found that he broke his egg at the wrong end ... oh well.

[JehovahsWitness]

There are many outside of the JW ... who sincerely worship "the true God", the same one that JWs claim for themselves.

There are many that believe they worship the true God but believing something doesn' necessarily make that thing true; those that adhere to the bible and believe it to be the word of God therefore have a personal responsibility to compare their religious teachings with those in scripture to verify if what their faith is indeed in line with the guidelines therein.



JW


Do Jehovahs Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... -religion/

[marco]

There are many that believe they worship the true God but believing something doesn' necessarily make that thing true;

Yes, my friend, that applies a fortiori to you. You are INTERPRETING Scripture in the way you want or in the way that a man in a nice suit has described for you. Your ready acceptance of that interpretation does not render it true - as you correctly point out.
I am impressed by the force and power that believers here express their viewpoints, and they are often mutually inconsistent. The BELIEF that what we have is true is a powerful incentive to preach from a position of superiority. I do not possess such truths, just a simple ability to reason, and I concede my powers are all too fallible. But they are the only instruments I have.

I listen for larks but I hear none.

[JehovahsWitness]

I do not possess such truths, just a simple ability to reason, and I concede my powers are all too fallible. But they are the only instruments I have.

Well on that we can agree, you do not possess such truth and yes, I agree your powers are indeed too fallible but they are all you have.

This is true for many so you are not alone.

Respect,

JEHOVAHS WITNESS