God, justice, fairness and perfection

Justin108 · Post by **Justin108** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:27 am

For this debate, I need you to answer each of these questions in order.

1. Is God perfectly fair and just?

2. If God is not perfectly fair and just, does that mean God is by definition imperfect?

3. Does everyone have an equal chance in getting into heaven?

4. If everyone does not have an equal chance in getting into heaven, is God still perfectly fair and just?

Zzyzx · Post by **Zzyzx** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:34 pm

.

Elijah John wrote: [Replying to post 187 by ttruscott]

Muslims do not worship "other Gods". They worship the same God of Abraham, but under a different name. "Allah" means "THE God", in Arabic. The one and only Living God. Known to us as YHVH.

Why is that so hard, for so many to understand? Perhaps Jesus-worship is to blame. But remember, even Arab Christians call the Father, "Allah".

EJ, I doubt that Christians do not understand that they, Jews and Muslims worship the same God -- but rather that they hate to admit it is true. "How can the wonderful God that we wonderful Christians worship be the same God as those terrible Muslims worship -- it must be a different God."

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:14 pm

[Replying to Zzyzx]

I asked this before:
How does one distinguish one all-powerful God from another, since they can behave as they will, and are under no obligation to any religion.

How would you be bound to a covenant with an ant mound?
Would you save their ant souls from a forest fire?

This God would be farther above you, than you are above ants...

How can you rectify discriminating God's properties, and then imagining he'd be what you think?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:34 am

Elijah John wrote: Muslims do not worship "other Gods". They worship the same God of Abraham, but under a different name.

And what about Baal? If someone claimed Baal was the Creator and had inspired a new book that was a progression of the Hebrew bible, the Christian bible and the Quran? would that also be the same God under a different name?

What is the purpose of having a name if having a "different name" doesn't identify someone... different? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of names in the first place?

JW

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:05 pm

[Replying to post 191 by JehovahsWitness]

JehovahsWitness wrote:
And what about Baal? If someone claimed Baal was the Creator and had inspired a new book that was a progression of the Hebrew bible, the Christian bible and the Quran? would that also be the same God under a different name?

Who knows?
What's so special about labels other than selling a brand?
Some people prefer Coke and some Pepsi. Some prefer their Jehovah to Quetzalcoatl.

JehovahsWitness wrote:What is the purpose of having a name if having a "different name" doesn't identify someone... different? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of names in the first place?

Yep.

The particular LABEL for any god is just a handy device to indicate what tribe ( religion ) we belong to.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:36 pm

Blastcat wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:What is the purpose of having a name if having a "different name" doesn't identify someone... different? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of names in the first place?
Yep.

The particular LABEL for any god is just a handy device to indicate what tribe ( religion ) we belong to.

My point exectly, saying a different name represents the same God surely defeats the purpose of Him having a name in the first place. We name things to identify and differentiate. To say that a different name (or no name) makes no difference is contradictory in my opinion.

JW

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:46 pm

[Replying to post 193 by JehovahsWitness]

JehovahsWitness wrote:
My point exectly, saying a different name represents the same God surely defeats the purpose of Him having a name in the first place. We name things to identify and differentiate. To say that a different name (or no name) makes no difference is contradictory in my opinion.

You seem to FORGET that people have different labels for the same kinds of things. Different "brands" of the same kind of god idea. Then, to make it "different", they dress it up with different stories, characteristics, even looks. But the CONCEPT might be very similar indeed.

People like to dress up their dolls. Different labels and costumes and characteristics like "creator" don't really mean anything other than people have imaginations.

Some people call the god "Jehovah", some people call it "Yahweh" others call it "Allah".. and some called it "Quetzalcoatl" .

To which I say:

Who CARES?.. None of them have been shown to EXIST other than in the imagination. And as you pointed out to us, we should NOT trust that you know anything at all about any gods.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:58 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Elijah John wrote: Muslims do not worship "other Gods". They worship the same God of Abraham, but under a different name.
And what about Baal? If someone claimed Baal was the Creator and had inspired a new book that was a progression of the Hebrew bible, the Christian bible and the Quran? would that also be the same God under a different name?

What is the purpose of having a name if having a "different name" doesn't identify someone... different? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of names in the first place?
JW

I know what you mean but the attributes of all Gods not YHWH do seem to be the same and they do complement each other but not YHWH, though Allah is the closest facsimile to YHWH. HE hates all other gods as false and evil and has promised to destroy them. Does Buddha say that? Rama? Zeus? Odin? It was after I learned about the other religions definition of god being in agreement and THEN reading YHWH's self definition in the bible that I realized the others were lying about HIM or knew HIM not at all, very strange. Only the Urantia book stood up on its hind legs and declared that YHWH had gone insane and Satan was sent to suppress his evil. Everyone else said HE was a bit weird but would naturally come together with the one true experience of the all inclusive godhead containing all of reality.

I do not think so. Once I realized I feared YHWH if HEwas GOD and thought the others were joke, my future was set in motion.

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:27 pm

[Replying to post 195 by ttruscott]

ttruscott wrote:
Once I realized I feared YHWH if HEwas GOD and thought the others were joke, my future was set in motion.

IF he was god... right.
Wouldn't THAT be frightening?

But what if all of that god stuff was nothing but STORIES?

Didn't that ever cross your mind?
Why "fear" something imaginary?

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:55 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Elijah John wrote: Muslims do not worship "other Gods". They worship the same God of Abraham, but under a different name.
And what about Baal? If someone claimed Baal was the Creator and had inspired a new book that was a progression of the Hebrew bible, the Christian bible and the Quran? would that also be the same God under a different name?

What is the purpose of having a name if having a "different name" doesn't identify someone... different? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of names in the first place?

JW

The fact that Muslims, and many, many Christians deny the name is limiting, and creates a vacum. Most Christians try to fill this vacum by worshiping the human being Jesus. But this does not mean that Christians or Muslims don't worship the very same God of Abraham. (Christians in addition to Jesus) If YHVH can be known as El Shaddai, or Elohim, why can't He be known as Allah as well? Allah means "THE God" (of Abraham).

Rember, YHVH God told Abraham that Ishmael would also father many nations. The descendants of Ishmael are the Arabs. The prophet from the Arabs is Mohammad. Mohammad knew God as "Allah".

Remember, there was a time that YHVH was not even known to His people as YHVH, but rather "El Shaddai". (reference in Exodus, I believe)

Does that mean YHVH was a "different God" at the time?

Baal accepted human sacrifice, didn't he? So Baal is not just another name for God, Baal was a false God, demon, an idol and a monster.

The God of Abraham does not accept human sacrifice, either under the name of "YHVH" or under the name of "Allah".

marco · Post by **marco** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:20 pm

Elijah John wrote:
But this does not mean that Christians or Muslims don't worship the very same God of Abraham. (Christians in addition to Jesus) If YHVH can be known as El Shaddai, or Elohim, why can't He be known as Allah as well? Allah means "THE God" (of Abraham).

A rose by any other name ... of course the Islamic God is the God of Abraham. The prophets are held in Islamic high esteem - Muhammad a little higher as we painfully observe if we say something unkind. Allah makes it clear in the Koran that Jesus is no God.
The similarity between Allah and Yahweh is striking.