Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

[Zzyzx]

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Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

All we “know� about the Satan character is from the POV of Bible writers – who claim that “he� is inferior to “God� (and presumably Jesus).

Since Bible writers and promoters have a vested interest in glorifying their favorite God(s) they could be expected to bad-mouth / demean / discredit the competition.

Since there is no assurance that there is only one “god� (or three-in-one for Christendom), the opposition might be one (or more) of the thousands of proposed gods. In fact, the only “evidence� for any of them consists of unverified tales, testimonials, conjectures, opinions, beliefs.

Thus, is there any sound reason that “Satan� could not be one of the other proposed gods and be equal in “power� to the Bible God?

“The Bible says� is NOT acceptable as proof of truth in this C&A sub-forum or in this thread.

Perhaps “Satan� isn't really the “bad guy� he is made out to be by promoters of the Bible God. Maybe “he� is another one of the “gods� and is equal to the Bible God and/or Jesus – and no more bad or good (or real or unreal) than they are.

It does not seem as though God and/or Jesus are able to defeat or eliminate Satan. Wonder why?

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

No gods can compete, who ain't there to do it.

Is “Satan� actually a competing “god�?

A competing concept.

All we “know� about the Satan character is from the POV of Bible writers – who claim that “he� is inferior to “God� (and presumably Jesus).

Naw now, we've sound, emperical data Satan can manifest as an exloveinterest.

Since Bible writers and promoters have a vested interest in glorifying their favorite God(s) they could be expected to bad-mouth / demean / discredit the competition.

Expected to heck, they've been shown to do it.

Since there is no assurance that there is only one “god� (or three-in-one for Christendom), the opposition might be one (or more) of the thousands of proposed gods. In fact, the only “evidence� for any of them consists of unverified tales, testimonials, conjectures, opinions, beliefs.

I propose there's no assurance there's any gods, much less one of 'em.

Thus, is there any sound reason that “Satan� could not be one of the other proposed gods and be equal in “power� to the Bible God?

Best I can tell, it was told ol' Adam and Eve there was threat with death if they ate from a tree. Some critter - who may or may not have been Satan (or my ex-wife) came up to 'em, and said go on and eat, and how 'bout that.

Upon the one or the other of 'em a-eatin', they gained knowledge of this sort or another.

And God didn't kill 'em right then and there, like an honest God would, 'cause killin' was his business, only his business was lack. Naw, he set forth a punishment he never told 'em he'd do, and grew him powerful upset that folks couldn't understand.

Such that entire planets hadda be flooded, 'cause he was might tired of a good bunch of us, or them, that.

It does not seem as though God and/or Jesus are able to defeat or eliminate Satan.

They can't even eliminate the incongruities in their own claims.

Wonder why?

'Cause they ain't there, only it is, folks ponder.

[Zzyzx]

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How do you know that Satan isn't the one communicating with you? He is supposed to be powerful and dishonest.

I have asked this question many times over the years and have never received a coherent answer.

Apologists seem to think that a supernatural master deceiver (according to their literature) could not deceive them. Yet many acknowledge that other people are deceived by "Satan".

[marco]

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How do you know that Satan isn't the one communicating with you? He is supposed to be powerful and dishonest.

I have asked this question many times over the years and have never received a coherent answer.

Apologists seem to think that a supernatural master deceiver (according to their literature) could not deceive them. Yet many acknowledge that other people are deceived by "Satan".

It is fairly certain that a large percentage of religious folk ARE deceived. They espouse mutually inconsistent tales as divine truth. But each little faction thinks itself to be the chosen receptacle of truth. Were truth TRUTH, it would present evidence that was beyond question. No one here possesses that.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 33 by marco]

It is fairly certain that a large percentage of religious folk ARE deceived. They espouse mutually inconsistent tales as divine truth. But each little faction thinks itself to be the chosen receptacle of truth. Were truth TRUTH, it would present evidence that was beyond question. No one here possesses that.

Good morning Mr. Marco!!!
Your statements could be said for both side of the coin. Honestly, if truth were as apparent as you seem to say, we wouldn't ever have the need for a judicial system.

[Willum]

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How do you know that Satan isn't the one communicating with you? He is supposed to be powerful and dishonest.

I have asked this question many times over the years and have never received a coherent answer.

Apologists seem to think that a supernatural master deceiver (according to their literature) could not deceive them. Yet many acknowledge that other people are deceived by "Satan".

It is fairly certain that a large percentage of religious folk ARE deceived. They espouse mutually inconsistent tales as divine truth. But each little faction thinks itself to be the chosen receptacle of truth. Were truth TRUTH, it would present evidence that was beyond question. No one here possesses that.

I must say that this seems to be excellent proof that the theory about Satan speaking as God is true, - excellent observation: It is impossible to argue with individuals about it, of course, but looking at the "big" and statistically relevant picture, obviously many are deceived.

In fact, most if not all. That would be a good study, and might even reveal, which, if any is true.

I wonder in there is a religious journal we can publish in and thus, put the matter to rest for good.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 29 by Peds nurse]

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"Might as well go for a soda
Nobody hurts and nobody cries
Might as well go for a soda
Nobody drowns and nobody dies"
- Kim Mitchell

t;]Thus, is there any sound reason that “Satan� could not be one of the other proposed gods and be equal in “power� to the Bible God?

“The Bible says� is NOT acceptable as proof of truth in this C&A sub-forum or in this thread.

(...) If we cannot address in the Bible, or other Abrahamic religious books what it says about Satan, which is the only recorded source of his existence, how can we defend our position that Satan is not a god?

Peds, you have hit the nail on the head.

If we don't take the Bible as the authority on what the Bible says, what ARE we left with? I'd say... nothing at all but the dreams the wishes the hopes and prayers of the believers and the pronouncements of the preachers.

That's what atheists have been pointing out for about a few thousand years now.

I hate to let the wind out of your sails a bit,

Hi Peds, I am always amenable to being a bit deflated... hubris is not a good thing. Sometimes I make my case a little too strong for people, and they tend to miss it because of HOW I put it.... but, I am not perfect, and maybe should let my sails out from time to time.

Good reminder, thank you.

but I was referring to the debate about Satan. I can find the presence of God, apart from the Bible, as God gives us His Spirit, but since Satan has not the same qualities as God, the only reference to him is in the Bible...

That's what I am talking about, Peds. The only evidence of any "Satan" or "God" or "Christ" or basically anything Christian is in the Bible. We are talking about stories in a book here.

I think that some Christians forget that we ARE just talking about story book characters, and NOT about any beings that we have ever proved to exist OUTSIDE of the book. So, without the authority of what the BIBLE says.... these guys evaporate into nothingness. I just don't take book characters are real without some kind of evidence. Without evidence that they guys ARE real, all we have here is "I think the Bible says this about that", in all the millions of variations. So, as an outsider to your faith, I just shrug. Ok, great, you think that the Bible says "THIS" about "THAT".

But I really have to ask...."SO WHAT"?
We think differently, we haven't proved anything, now, let's go for a soda.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 34:

Your statements could be said for both side of the coin. Honestly, if truth were as apparent as you seem to say, we wouldn't ever have the need for a judicial system.

Only don't it beat all, so many Christians have decided to use the judicial system (among other government agencies) to infect society with their unfounded beliefs.

NOT that Peds nurse has, she's cool in my book.

[marco]

[Replying to post 33 by marco]

It is fairly certain that a large percentage of religious folk ARE deceived. They espouse mutually inconsistent tales as divine truth. But each little faction thinks itself to be the chosen receptacle of truth. Were truth TRUTH, it would present evidence that was beyond question. No one here possesses that.

Good morning Mr. Marco!!!
Your statements could be said for both side of the coin. Honestly, if truth were as apparent as you seem to say, we wouldn't ever have the need for a judicial system.

Hello nurse, and a pleasure it is to converse with you.

I'm not sure what coin we are talking about here but if it is the coin representing believers' beliefs on the one side and non-believers on the other then non-believers don't claim divine truth. The other side all claim truth, but it is clear that they are at odds with each other, so what they claim is not truth at all. On the face of it, the non-believers seem to win in their modest claims.

But I know this revelation won't dampen your spirits. Have a lovely day.

[JLB32168]

Remove the “FACT�? That has NOT been established as a fact.[/quote}You’re the one who wanted to discuss Satan and God. No one else would have said a word about these imaginary beings if you hadn’t brought them up.

You have a propensity to bring up topics ostensibly for the purpose of discussing those topics, only to gripe about how they don’t exist after someone entertains your question, which leaves one perplexed as to why you brought them up in the first place.

“I want to discuss these things with you; however, whenever you bring them up, I’m going to tell you that the things we’re going to discuss don’t exist.�

WTH??

I am not bound to accept the Christian / Abrahamic religion position regarding gods or devils.

But you asked if Satan was a god. If you didn’t want an answer then why’d you ask the question?

Thus, God did not make everything in the universe.

God doesn’t exist, so the point is irrelevant and we shouldn’t be discussing it.

Now . . . to the theist who believes that God exists, I would point out that God did indeed make everything; however, death isn’t a thing. It occupies no space, has no mass, weight, and it cannot be measured; therefore, it isn’t an object that could have been made by anyone.

Because something appears in NT stories is NOT assurance that it happened.

Your only source for Satan is the NT. Now you’re casting aspersion upon your own source material. What are you trying to prove by attacking the one source upon which you’re building your argument?

Your debate is making no sense.

[JLB32168]

To get round the problem of God creating evil . . .

What is evil? Where is it located – since it’s a thing that was created and all?