Would we really live forever?

[Willum]

So we have this assumption that since Eve ate the apple, that we were afflicted with this original sin, and now we get to die for it.

But is this a good assumption?
How do we know God didn't design us with the end in mind?


That is to die.

There are plenty of paradoxes associated with the apple, such as not being able TO sin until she ate the apple, but sining by eating the apple.

So, given the behavior of Yahwey in the OT, how do we know he was sincere in our otherwise immortality, before?

In other words, how do we know that eating the apple changed anything?
Perhaps were were designed to die all along.

[ttruscott]

Judaism taught and still teaches (as well as Eastern Orthodox Christianity) that A&E were created with the potential for immortality and not that they were already immortal. The fruit would have eventually been given to them when they were ready and which would then grant them immortality.

Are you comfortable with the evil dead being resurrected to eternal damnation? Either they were eternal before their damnation or they will not be resurrected which is contrary to scripture.

[ttruscott]

So are there any indicators God intended us to live forever, or did he just make that up, after the fact?

The first thing that happens after the judgement of the evil ones to eternal banishment to the outer darkness is the Wedding of the holy Church to HIS Son. This is described as 'eternal life' and, as the culmination of HIS plan, was the purpose or goal of HIS plan and therefore eternal life was always HIS intention, not an after-thought.

[JehovahsWitness]

Like, for example, if we were originally designed for immortality, there should be some tells to that designed, perverted by mortality, and etc..

So are there any indicators God intended us to live forever, or did he just make that up, after the fact?

Interesting question. First I feel the need to point out that biblically speakng "immortality" and "living forever" are not the same thing. Immortality is, if you like, being "indestructable" because your life is not dependent on anyone or anything to keep going.

Angels are not immortal, Satan as a "fallen angel will one day be destroyed and his life will come to an end", no human can be "immortal" since human life is dependent on food, water, air to be sustained. God has granted immortality to his son and others who he rewards with life in the heavens, but no human can ever be "immortal". They can be granted everlasting life though...


If we were originally designed for [eternal life], there should be some tells to that designed, perverted by mortality, and etc..

Indeed and there are. In fact, the mystery is not that we can live forever, but given the design of the human body, why we die at all. Every cell in the human body renews itself after specific periods of time. Indeed the body you have now is essentially not the same body you had 5 years ago. If you had a car that replaced every part of its engine and body every 5 years how long would you say the designer expected the car to last?

Clearly the human body was designed to be able to live forever. The mystery is at a certain point some yet explained mechanism kicks in and the cells start to renew less efficiently, less often, we call this "aging" ... and this continues until eventually the body ceases to function at all (we call this death). Why the cells do not continue to renew at maximum capacity is the mystery.

Physical evidence that humans were originally designed to live much longerthan we do can [also) be seen in the power of the brain, especially in its potential to learn. The Encyclopedia of the Brain and Brain Disorders states that the long-term memory capacity of the human brain is virtually unlimited. Why have this capacity if it were not meant to be used?" Awake, August 2013 p. 8
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201308/

RELATED POSTS



Won't the earth eventually become over populated if nobody dies?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 37#p832237

Were humans designed to live forever?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p815882

If death will be eliminated, why will animals not live forever in paradise ?
viewtopic.php?p=956006#p956006

To learn more please go to other posts related to

LIFE, DEATH and ...THE HUMAN SOUL

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[OnceConvinced]

So we have this assumption that since Eve ate the apple, that we were afflicted with this original sin, and now we get to die for it.

But is this a good assumption?
How do we know God didn't design us with the end in mind?

It had to be part of his design. There's no other way around it unless we say that God is an incompetent designer.

All his creations are supposedly perfect. So if he designed a system, the only way death could get into it, is if he designed it to be so. So as soon as sin entered (eg, disobedience), death reared its ugly head. Perfect design would only allow that if it was intended.

The only way death could get in there without God intending it to, is if there was some flaw already in the system that was exploited by an external source. That would mean God unwittingly left holes in there, just like a human designer does. That would mean not only is the creation not perfect, but then neither is God.

[dukekenha]

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

So we have this assumption that since Eve ate the apple, that we were afflicted with this original sin, and now we get to die for it.

But is this a good assumption?
How do we know God didn't design us with the end in mind?
Smile

Your assumption is wrong cause there were no mention of an apple and original sin in the scripture at the time of adam. It is not a good assumption afterall and it end up in the mind of a delusional thinker. Is the smiley for the one who created the question or for not thinking before asking?

[Willum]

"Stump the dummiers" seem to want to dominate this thread.
Do I really need to start an new thread and say "fall from grace," or some other term, instead of apple? But is begs the question - then you all will start doing the Clinton on whatever terms I do use. Can none of you think succinctly?

This is a question about design indicators, not some apple allegory.
(Thanks to those who didn't take the low road.)

[OnceConvinced]

There is clearly no need to justify the use of the word "apple". We all know it wasn't an actual apple. It's like when we talk about Jonah and the whale. We know it wasn't a whale, it was a giant fish.

Can we move on and actually have some legitimate responses to the questions people?

[ttruscott]

So we have this assumption that since Eve ate the apple, that we were afflicted with this original sin, and now we get to die for it.

But is this a good assumption?
How do we know God didn't design us with the end in mind?

It had to be part of his design. There's no other way around it unless we say that God is an incompetent designer.

All his creations are supposedly perfect. So if he designed a system, the only way death could get into it, is if he designed it to be so.

So may I ask, what part of our free will caused all evil and death are you still unsure about after all the times you've had it explained to you folk...???

[Willum]

[Replying to post 18 by ttruscott]

Hi TS,
Here's the thing, that bit is OK to assume in the OP.

[otseng]

[Replying to post 16 by Willum]

Moderator Comment

I see the failure not in how people responded to your OP, but how you phrased the OP. Feel free to create another thread.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.