Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
Post #2historia wrote: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity? Why?
I believe so yes.
Why? Because we are alive and the source of that life is I believe divine. Humans were created in God's image, according to the bible and anything that reflects, even to a small degree the qualities and attributes of the Creator has, I believe, value. Jesus is reported as saying that not even a sparrow dies without the Father (Jehovah) taking note, and concluded (speaking of his disciples) "you are worth more than many sparrows". So in the eyes of God humans have value.
This was I believe demonstrated to the ultimate degree by God sending what was most valuable/precious to Him, namely His son to die for humanity. Instead of giving up on mankind as "a lost cause" Jehovah God (The Creator) took measures to save them from destruction. This was because he valued humans past, present and future; reason enough in my opinion to accept the notion that all humans fundamentally have have equal worth and value.
JW
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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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rikuoamero
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Re: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
Post #3[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]
Cough, the 144,000, cough.This was because he valued humans past, present and future; reason enough in my opinion to accept the notion that all humans fundamentally have have equal worth and value.
Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"
I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead
Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
Post #4rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]
Cough, the 144,000, cough.This was because he valued humans past, present and future; reason enough in my opinion to accept the notion that all humans fundamentally have have equal worth and value.
Did you have a point to make or a question to ask. Do you feel able to state it in complete sentences that can be understood? I notice you addresses the above post to me but I am unable to understaand your point.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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rikuoamero
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Re: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
Post #5[Replying to post 4 by JehovahsWitness]
I thought it was obvious. You stated that all humans are of "equal worth and value", yet the Watchtower teaches that there will be 144,000 people who will rule with Christ in heaven.
Would you believe a man who says he loves all his children equally, but he leaves a greater portion of his estate to one of his children, and the others receive lesser?
I thought it was obvious. You stated that all humans are of "equal worth and value", yet the Watchtower teaches that there will be 144,000 people who will rule with Christ in heaven.
Would you believe a man who says he loves all his children equally, but he leaves a greater portion of his estate to one of his children, and the others receive lesser?
Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"
I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead
Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense
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Divine Insight
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Re: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
Post #6Christianity demands that they don't. After all, you can't have a few people going to heaven and the vast majority going to hell and claim that all these people have equal worth and dignity.historia wrote: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity? Why?
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
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StuartJ
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Post #7
Jesus - who is NEVER written of in the Gospels as loving humanity - is also NOT written of as considering all people having equal worth and dignity.
He not only drowned all but a handful when he filled the Dome of Heaven - not sparing the children who had never heard of him - he is going to come back again and exterminate Buddhist children and all other non-Christians with fire ...
And send their souls to Hell ...
Jesus talks about hell more than he talks about heaven, and describes it more vividly. There’s no denying that Jesus knew, believed, and warned against the absolute reality of hell.
Jesus doesn’t only reference hell, he describes it in great detail. He says it is a place of eternal torment (Luke 16:23), of unquenchable fire (Mark 9:43), where the worm does not die (Mark 9:48), where people will gnash their teeth in anguish and regret (Matt. 13:42), and from which there is no return, even to warn loved ones (Luke 16:19–31). He calls hell a place of “outer darkness� (Matt. 25:30), comparing it to “Gehenna� (Matt. 10:28), which was a trash dump outside the walls of Jerusalem where rubbish was burned and maggots abounded. Jesus talks about hell more than he talks about heaven, and describes it more vividly. There’s no denying that Jesus knew, believed, and warned against the absolute reality of hell. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/arti ... yone-else/
Broadly: Christianity - the exterminator of indigenous cultures - has NEVER treated ALL people with equal fundamental worth and dignity.
Christianity has taught that all people are worthless sinners.
He not only drowned all but a handful when he filled the Dome of Heaven - not sparing the children who had never heard of him - he is going to come back again and exterminate Buddhist children and all other non-Christians with fire ...
And send their souls to Hell ...
Jesus talks about hell more than he talks about heaven, and describes it more vividly. There’s no denying that Jesus knew, believed, and warned against the absolute reality of hell.
Jesus doesn’t only reference hell, he describes it in great detail. He says it is a place of eternal torment (Luke 16:23), of unquenchable fire (Mark 9:43), where the worm does not die (Mark 9:48), where people will gnash their teeth in anguish and regret (Matt. 13:42), and from which there is no return, even to warn loved ones (Luke 16:19–31). He calls hell a place of “outer darkness� (Matt. 25:30), comparing it to “Gehenna� (Matt. 10:28), which was a trash dump outside the walls of Jerusalem where rubbish was burned and maggots abounded. Jesus talks about hell more than he talks about heaven, and describes it more vividly. There’s no denying that Jesus knew, believed, and warned against the absolute reality of hell. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/arti ... yone-else/
Broadly: Christianity - the exterminator of indigenous cultures - has NEVER treated ALL people with equal fundamental worth and dignity.
Christianity has taught that all people are worthless sinners.
No one EVER demonstrates that "God" exists outside their parietal cortex.
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Divine Insight
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Post #8
Not only this, but Christianity demands that it's not even possible for a person to redeem themselves. All that is permitted in Christianity is to come to Christ and beg for undeserved amnesty at which time Jesus may decide to grant us forgiveness by grace.StuartJ wrote: Christianity has taught that all people are worthless sinners.
But only if we are willing to remain in a state of total humility of our absolute worthlessness. Self-worth isn't even permitted in Christianity. That's condemned as the "sin" of pride.
So in Christianity it's a sin to even think that you might be worth anything.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
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William
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Re: Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
Post #9[Replying to post 1 by historia]
Getting back to the OPQ
For example, if one is to argue that Jesus required his follows to love everyone - even their enemies, is this the same as the recognition that all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
It is a hard one to answer being that we live in systems of disparity whereby the idea of everyone treating all people positively equally would garner a whole different - and decidedly foreign - world within the minds eye.
Even the idea of 'worth' tends to place artificial value upon a human being.
On the other hand, it appears to be something identifiable in humans that they are driven to act worthily and with dignity as part of their evolving personalities, which also tends to show up those who don't put much - if any - effort into such process.
And those are just some of the problems associated with finding an agreeable answer to that question.
Getting back to the OPQ
I think it gets down to the individual deciding for themselves.Do all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity? Why?
For example, if one is to argue that Jesus required his follows to love everyone - even their enemies, is this the same as the recognition that all people have equal fundamental worth and dignity?
It is a hard one to answer being that we live in systems of disparity whereby the idea of everyone treating all people positively equally would garner a whole different - and decidedly foreign - world within the minds eye.
Even the idea of 'worth' tends to place artificial value upon a human being.
On the other hand, it appears to be something identifiable in humans that they are driven to act worthily and with dignity as part of their evolving personalities, which also tends to show up those who don't put much - if any - effort into such process.
And those are just some of the problems associated with finding an agreeable answer to that question.
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The Tanager
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Post #10
[Replying to post 1 by historia]
I think all people do have equal fundamental worth and dignity. Worth and value seem to me to be relative terms (worthy to whom? good for what?). I think, from God's viewpoint, based on His essential nature, every human has equal worth and dignity. I also think that God has made us all equally valuable for each other (at least, if they are in identical relations to us) and equally worthy of our love and care (whether or not they are in identical relations to us or not).
I think all people do have equal fundamental worth and dignity. Worth and value seem to me to be relative terms (worthy to whom? good for what?). I think, from God's viewpoint, based on His essential nature, every human has equal worth and dignity. I also think that God has made us all equally valuable for each other (at least, if they are in identical relations to us) and equally worthy of our love and care (whether or not they are in identical relations to us or not).
