Other religions..

[Elijah John]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

[catnip]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. ...

Seems this kind of thinking is the result of misplaced focus, imo. Exclusionary Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses focus on the differences, instead of what the great religions have in common.

What they have in common is love of God and Neighbor. Treating others as you would have them treat you. The Golden Rule and variations thereof.

Jesus considered this the essence of true religion. Called these tenants the "Law and the Prophets".

So how could other religions which also preach the Golden Rule be considered "enemies" if they are (in essence) preaching the same thing that Jesus preached?

Because they preach other things that he definitely did NOT preach. Other religions support war that God has no part in (the wars of the O.T. were wars that Jehovah was directly involved in, telling Israel exactly what and when and to whom they should fight against; today's wars are not leaning on God's direct instructions).

When the war with Iraq began all the churches with the exception of the Southern Baptist Convention came out against going to war. Most Christian churches teach peace but allow the guidance of what is called the Just War doctrine framed by Augustine. Many of us in the more small-c catholic end of the spectrum are pacifist but that is an individual choice perhaps guided by God through grace.

They teach of a hideous, sadistic place that God has prepared for wicked humans, where they will literally burn unceasingly, in agony.

Certainly not all.

They teach of a conscious spirit that separates from the body at death and that has almost a universal understanding that this disembodied spirit can and will harm humans, sometimes in the most hideous ways.

Who teaches this? Spiritualists, perhaps. But they aren't traditionalists and it is a small disorganized faction.

Are these loving teachings? Are these other religions teaching their followers to "love as you would want to be loved"?

Well, the Golden Rule is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But the Great Commandment is to actually love others as your SELF.

How can you say that these religions, though teachings the teachings of demons, have great value because they also teach love?

God is love. Love cannot be faked, it cannot be misused; it is the one thing--when it is pure and true--that cannot be evil. Evil begins where love ends. The problem with some quarters is that they stop teaching love or teach that it is fluff and God's power isn't through love.

What is wrong with that picture? Have you ever heard of someone talking "out of both sides of their mouth," so to speak?

You are right that a person fully immersed in faith cannot speak without love, gentleness, kindness, patience and generosity coming through. But generally, spewing brackish water comes from preaching hatred of any kind. You preach against churches, but churches ARE the people--the Ekklesia, the Called Out. Churches aren't buildings. They aren't political entities. A true church is where the love of Christ is found.

Do you trust God to save his faithful people? You are professing "Right Belief" and I don't think it is about "Right Belief" but purely faith in the living God.

[onewithhim]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. ...

Seems this kind of thinking is the result of misplaced focus, imo. Exclusionary Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses focus on the differences, instead of what the great religions have in common.

What they have in common is love of God and Neighbor. Treating others as you would have them treat you. The Golden Rule and variations thereof.

Jesus considered this the essence of true religion. Called these tenants the "Law and the Prophets".

So how could other religions which also preach the Golden Rule be considered "enemies" if they are (in essence) preaching the same thing that Jesus preached?

Because they preach other things that he definitely did NOT preach. Other religions support war that God has no part in (the wars of the O.T. were wars that Jehovah was directly involved in, telling Israel exactly what and when and to whom they should fight against; today's wars are not leaning on God's direct instructions). They teach of a hideous, sadistic place that God has prepared for wicked humans, where they will literally burn unceasingly, in agony. They teach of a conscious spirit that separates from the body at death and that has almost a universal understanding that this disembodied spirit can and will harm humans, sometimes in the most hideous ways. Are these loving teachings? Are these other religions teaching their followers to "love as you would want to be loved"? How can you say that these religions, though teachings the teachings of demons, have great value because they also teach love? What is wrong with that picture? Have you ever heard of someone talking "out of both sides of their mouth," so to speak?

What if you folks are wrong on subjects like soul-sleep and hell? What remains. The things we can be sure of is the preaching of love, the speculation of these other things you mentioned are needlessly divisive, imo.

Seems you are making special exemption for war in the OT.

And if the allies didn't intervene in WWII to stop Hitler, don't you think even more Jews and Jehovah's Witnesses would have been murdered?

If you want to extend the pacifist logic, why not just disband the police, so folks could "turn the other cheek" to murderous criminals?

Police make war on criminals, don't ya think that is a good thing?

If so, some sides in war are plainly evil and some are good. ISIS is pure evil and have to be stopped by whatever means necessary.

Or are you OK with more burned, drowned and crucified Christians, Jews, and Muslims who oppose them?

Or are you waiting for Jesus to step up to the plate? How many more innocents must be tortured and die while we wait...passively?

If the teachings of hell-fire and the immortal soul ARE LIES, then what use are they except to keep people in abject fear so they can be controlled (into keeping the coffers filled & political officials in office)?

You defend all religions, even those that teach the horror of hell-fire, because "they also teach love." I don't get it. Isn't hell-fire a very unloving, terror-inspiring concept?

War in the OT was directed by Jehovah himself, in communication with Moses and Joshua and the other leaders after them. Jehovah instructed them on what to do. They didn't always follow His instructions, but that communication was there. Do you really believe that any of the war-mongers of our day are getting instructions directly from Jehovah?

If the Allies had been open to God's thoughts even before WWII, there wouldn't have been a war at all. Haven't you read up on the history? There were many ways that war could have been avoided, even up to 1939. But WAY before that, if the churches had taught the truth about what Jesus said, world situations would have been very different, and the paths to war would've been blocked.

However many innocents are suffering or killed, they will be remembered by Jehovah and resurrected back to life on Earth. He has a time picked out when He will put an end to this madness (which is egged on by any church that supports war & corruption). Yes, look at the facts behind what the churches did during and after the World Wars and then tell me if they weren't complicit in the horrors... and then also the escape from justice of war criminals.

[onewithhim]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. ...

Seems this kind of thinking is the result of misplaced focus, imo. Exclusionary Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses focus on the differences, instead of what the great religions have in common.

What they have in common is love of God and Neighbor. Treating others as you would have them treat you. The Golden Rule and variations thereof.

Jesus considered this the essence of true religion. Called these tenants the "Law and the Prophets".

So how could other religions which also preach the Golden Rule be considered "enemies" if they are (in essence) preaching the same thing that Jesus preached?

Because they preach other things that he definitely did NOT preach. Other religions support war that God has no part in (the wars of the O.T. were wars that Jehovah was directly involved in, telling Israel exactly what and when and to whom they should fight against; today's wars are not leaning on God's direct instructions).

When the war with Iraq began all the churches with the exception of the Southern Baptist Convention came out against going to war. Most Christian churches teach peace but allow the guidance of what is called the Just War doctrine framed by Augustine. Many of us in the more small-c catholic end of the spectrum are pacifist but that is an individual choice perhaps guided by God through grace.

They teach of a hideous, sadistic place that God has prepared for wicked humans, where they will literally burn unceasingly, in agony.

Certainly not all.

They teach of a conscious spirit that separates from the body at death and that has almost a universal understanding that this disembodied spirit can and will harm humans, sometimes in the most hideous ways.

Who teaches this? Spiritualists, perhaps. But they aren't traditionalists and it is a small disorganized faction.

Are these loving teachings? Are these other religions teaching their followers to "love as you would want to be loved"?

Well, the Golden Rule is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But the Great Commandment is to actually love others as your SELF.

How can you say that these religions, though teachings the teachings of demons, have great value because they also teach love?

God is love. Love cannot be faked, it cannot be misused; it is the one thing--when it is pure and true--that cannot be evil. Evil begins where love ends. The problem with some quarters is that they stop teaching love or teach that it is fluff and God's power isn't through love.

What is wrong with that picture? Have you ever heard of someone talking "out of both sides of their mouth," so to speak?

You are right that a person fully immersed in faith cannot speak without love, gentleness, kindness, patience and generosity coming through. But generally, spewing brackish water comes from preaching hatred of any kind. You preach against churches, but churches ARE the people--the Ekklesia, the Called Out. Churches aren't buildings. They aren't political entities. A true church is where the love of Christ is found.

Do you trust God to save his faithful people? You are professing "Right Belief" and I don't think it is about "Right Belief" but purely faith in the living God.

So we're going to follow a doctrine dreamed up by AUGUSTINE? What about the doctrines of CHRIST? He stated that "you must love your enemy & do good to those who persecute you." (Matt.5:44) The NT is filled with admonitions to be peaceable. I don't have room here to list them all!

Today there is no "just war." That is a man's idea to justify the church being involved in the worldly actions of the nations.

You say those who are "pacifists" are PERHAPS "guided by God through grace." God is definitely guiding His people to peaceableness. Any who are NOT peaceable are not being guided by Him. Why this doesn't make sense to you, I can't fathom. When the war in Iraq started and most of the churches were in opposition, guess what---it was too little too late.


I don't preach against people. I preach against the leaders of those churches that mislead their people. I believe that most of these leaders KNOW that they are teaching lies, but they do so anyway because of the power they hold over billions of people who trust them.

Christ's love can't be found in a church directed by war-supporting hate-mongerers. There can be no war today without hate.

[Elijah John]

Christ's love can't be found in a church directed by war-supporting hate-mongerers. There can be no war today without hate.

Do you think the Allied war against Hitlers Germany was motivated by "hate"? Remember, Hitler was murdering Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and others.

I don't think "turning the other cheek" would have worked with Hitler.

To those who say that "war never solves anything"...consider this. War destroyed Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. And from the ashes, war ultimately turned both into civilized nations.

Also, I don't think "turning the other cheek" would work to bring ISIS to the peace of Christ,...do you?

And if so, how many innocents will be murdered in the attempt?

[catnip]

For debate, (addressed primarily to Theists) :

Do you see other religions, (and people who practice other religions) as enemies? Competitors? Or allies in the quest to bring people to God and His ways?

I see other religious institutions as enemies. ...

Seems this kind of thinking is the result of misplaced focus, imo. Exclusionary Evangelicals and Jehovah's Witnesses focus on the differences, instead of what the great religions have in common.

What they have in common is love of God and Neighbor. Treating others as you would have them treat you. The Golden Rule and variations thereof.

Jesus considered this the essence of true religion. Called these tenants the "Law and the Prophets".

So how could other religions which also preach the Golden Rule be considered "enemies" if they are (in essence) preaching the same thing that Jesus preached?

Because they preach other things that he definitely did NOT preach. Other religions support war that God has no part in (the wars of the O.T. were wars that Jehovah was directly involved in, telling Israel exactly what and when and to whom they should fight against; today's wars are not leaning on God's direct instructions).

When the war with Iraq began all the churches with the exception of the Southern Baptist Convention came out against going to war. Most Christian churches teach peace but allow the guidance of what is called the Just War doctrine framed by Augustine. Many of us in the more small-c catholic end of the spectrum are pacifist but that is an individual choice perhaps guided by God through grace.

They teach of a hideous, sadistic place that God has prepared for wicked humans, where they will literally burn unceasingly, in agony.

Certainly not all.

They teach of a conscious spirit that separates from the body at death and that has almost a universal understanding that this disembodied spirit can and will harm humans, sometimes in the most hideous ways.

Who teaches this? Spiritualists, perhaps. But they aren't traditionalists and it is a small disorganized faction.

Are these loving teachings? Are these other religions teaching their followers to "love as you would want to be loved"?

Well, the Golden Rule is to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. But the Great Commandment is to actually love others as your SELF.

How can you say that these religions, though teachings the teachings of demons, have great value because they also teach love?

God is love. Love cannot be faked, it cannot be misused; it is the one thing--when it is pure and true--that cannot be evil. Evil begins where love ends. The problem with some quarters is that they stop teaching love or teach that it is fluff and God's power isn't through love.

What is wrong with that picture? Have you ever heard of someone talking "out of both sides of their mouth," so to speak?

You are right that a person fully immersed in faith cannot speak without love, gentleness, kindness, patience and generosity coming through. But generally, spewing brackish water comes from preaching hatred of any kind. You preach against churches, but churches ARE the people--the Ekklesia, the Called Out. Churches aren't buildings. They aren't political entities. A true church is where the love of Christ is found.

Do you trust God to save his faithful people? You are professing "Right Belief" and I don't think it is about "Right Belief" but purely faith in the living God.

So we're going to follow a doctrine dreamed up by AUGUSTINE? What about the doctrines of CHRIST? He stated that "you must love your enemy & do good to those who persecute you." (Matt.5:44) The NT is filled with admonitions to be peaceable. I don't have room here to list them all!

Today there is no "just war." That is a man's idea to justify the church being involved in the worldly actions of the nations.

You say those who are "pacifists" are PERHAPS "guided by God through grace." God is definitely guiding His people to peaceableness. Any who are NOT peaceable are not being guided by Him. Why this doesn't make sense to you, I can't fathom. When the war in Iraq started and most of the churches were in opposition, guess what---it was too little too late.


I don't preach against people. I preach against the leaders of those churches that mislead their people. I believe that most of these leaders KNOW that they are teaching lies, but they do so anyway because of the power they hold over billions of people who trust them.

Christ's love can't be found in a church directed by war-supporting hate-mongerers. There can be no war today without hate.

Few churches actually condone war. Certainly not hate mongering. There have been instances of that--but at the time the RCC was a political entity, not simply a church (and it still is).

But I agree with EJ. When a tyrant like Hitler runs amuck, those who love others will fight to free and protect others and end they reign of that regime. We aren't speaking religions--certainly the U.S. involvement in WWII was not religious. In fact, as a modern war it is one of the few that I can honestly claim was not religiously motivated in any way. As far as I know, if there were ever any reason for the existence of a Just War doctrine, this is it.

That said, I am a pacifist and I am against violence. But being perfectly honest, I might actually respond violently in an attempt to protect an innocent or someone I love. I am not sure that is wrong. We ask ourselves if we can stand by and watch someone else hurt and not be moved to do something to stop it and we find that to be a cruel thing to do.

[onewithhim]

Christ's love can't be found in a church directed by war-supporting hate-mongerers. There can be no war today without hate.

Do you think the Allied war against Hitlers Germany was motivated by "hate"? Remember, Hitler was murdering Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah's Witnesses and others.

I don't think "turning the other cheek" would have worked with Hitler.

To those who say that "war never solves anything"...consider this. War destroyed Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. And from the ashes, war ultimately turned both into civilized nations.

Also, I don't think "turning the other cheek" would work to bring ISIS to the peace of Christ,...do you?

And if so, how many innocents will be murdered in the attempt?

Anyone who gets so low that they actually kill someone is motivated by hate, or, at the very least, they must view the person they are killing as sub-human and their life worth nothing. I have commented how the wars could have been averted altogether, but the lack of appreciation for peoples' lives and the prime consideration of their own power induced world leaders to disregard the millions of human lives wasted on the battle fields AND the civilians in the towns and cities and the countryside. This includes American lives (and those of other Allies). None of those lives had to have been lost, and Hitler did not even HAVE to rise to power. You aren't looking at it from an over-all standpoint. You just see what was happening when the Nazis finally gained a secure foothold.

Hitler could have been stopped at many points. He was allowed to take Austria and then Poland without a peep. Some of the Catholic clergy protested in Austria, but their voice was ignored, even by the Vatican. The Pope could have been a huge voice in opposition to Hitler, but he chose to be silent and instead sign a Concordat with the Third Reich. And as I pointed out, this could have been averted altogether if the churches had been teaching Christian teachings before any wars started. They were more interested in climbing in bed with world leaders, for centuries upon centuries, and then when wars happened they were out blessing the troops and encouraging their parishioners to fight. Hello.

So this whole war thing is as anti-Christian as anyone can get. This carelessness for human life started WAY back, thousands of years ago, and Jehovah isn't happy with any of it.





the lover of war

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 66 by onewithhim]

OK owh...given that Hitler DID rise to power, and was waging hate-filled war against innocents, what should the Allies have done?

And today, what should the civilized world do about ISIS?

Remember, JWs and other pacifists enjoy the protection of the West, a protection bought with the blood of war.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 66 by onewithhim]

OK owh...given that Hitler DID rise to power, and was waging hate-filled war against innocents, what should the Allies have done?

And today, what should the civilized world do about ISIS?

Remember, JWs and other pacifists enjoy the protection of the West, a protection bought with the blood of war.

You don't seem to realize that the implimentation of the machinery of war crushes the innocent and the noble right along with the enemy. You condemn American soldiers to die right along with terrorists. If I condoned war against terrorists, I am also condoning war against Americans. I will have none of it.

What this country has done about all the terrorist groups has been feeble and has accomplished practically nothing. Didn't you sense something wrong when Bush went after Sadam Hussein when he wasn't even involved in 9-11? Bin Laden was not in anybody's sites until later. That probably had to do with the Bush family's friendship with the Bin Ladens. Terrorists have not been effectively monitored in this country, actually allowing them to move in and out with ease. Why is that? How can a man walk right up to a plane and put something in the luggage compartment and no body notices? This has happened all over the U.S. Could it be that catching terrorists isn't really at the top of any government official's list?

When ISIS cut off people's heads on videos, and the world watched, where was any decisive action on this government's part? Was the wimpy response due to fear that the U.S. would hurt civilians? LOL!! Civilians are being blown up and shot every day! So what could be the reason that the U.S. hasn't cleaned that demonic horde out of Afghanistan or wherever they are hiding? I wouldn't trust this government to do anything that would mean something. This insane war has been going on for 15 years! With no end in sight. The body bags keep coming home. With no goals achieved, why keep sending Americans to get blown up by bombs and missiles and guns? ISIS is staying put, and no one can touch them. There's something wrong with that picture.

So, looking at what's going on now....it's still too little, too late, if the effort is worth anything at all. If ISIS walked into the Whitehouse tomorrow I'll bet they would receive a handshake from Obama. You are placing your confidence in corrupt, evil morons to get rid of corrupt evil morons.

I will wait for Jesus Christ to end the insanity. All signs point to him coming very soon.


"And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and wages war....And on his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, 'King of kings, and Lord of lords.' Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, 'Come, assemble for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders [chiliarchs, in command of one thousand troops] and the flesh of mighty men....And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth AND THEIR ARMIES assembled to make war against him who sat on the horse and against his army.'" (Revelation 19:11,16-19, NASB)

And guess who wins. Do we want to be standing with the "kings of the earth and their armies" when Jesus comes back?



[/b]

[JehovahsWitness]

And today, what should the civilized world do about ISIS?

The "civilized" world will make their own way, but Christians should continue to follow christian law come what may and Christian law is unequivocal: they have been commanded by their leader to "Love their enemies". Indeed love would be one of the main identifying marks of True Christianity. In a world steeped in war and violence, those that obey God's command (not only in peace time when everyone is a "lover not a fighter" because the government says that's okay) but when their country declares war on their enemies.

Remember, JWs and other pacifists enjoy the protection of the West, a protection bought with the blood of war.

Jehovah's Witnesses live in all countries and territories on this our planet earth under all the different regimes and we have prospered; we put this down not to any human initiatives but to Jehovah our God. That is not to say we don't appreciate the freedoms held out by democratic and free societies as typified by the West but we simply cannot compromise our Christian neutrality, take up arms to kill our fellow man and possibly our own Christian brothers in another country, or support human wars as this would represent for us a violation of Christian law and principle.

Are we living off the "blood" of those that did? No, firstly because as a group we live in the territories of both sides of any conflict and also because we as a group have paid the ultimate price for our neutrality many times over with the blood of our own men, women and children. We have not fought with swords and guns but we have stood up and been counted as those that refused to support regimes that were bent on destroying the lives of others. None of our German or Japanese brothers killed American or British soldiers, even if refusing to do so cost them their lives.

There is indeed a bravery in standing up for "King and Country" as typified by many men and women in the military; we just have a different King and country.




JW

[catnip]

[Replying to post 66 by onewithhim]

OK owh...given that Hitler DID rise to power, and was waging hate-filled war against innocents, what should the Allies have done?

And today, what should the civilized world do about ISIS?

Remember, JWs and other pacifists enjoy the protection of the West, a protection bought with the blood of war.

You don't seem to realize that the implimentation of the machinery of war crushes the innocent and the noble right along with the enemy. You condemn American soldiers to die right along with terrorists. If I condoned war against terrorists, I am also condoning war against Americans. I will have none of it.

Fine. You will allow IS to murder the Christians and others in the region, to deprive families of their fathers and wives of their husbands because somehow you think there is no right way for soldiers to go in and fight in order to protect others, to end the scourge of the rising power of IS. It isn't rising any longer thanks to those who do realize we have to fight them in order to stop them and the spread of their fundamentalist Muslim ideology which is utterly insane.

You are sending a mixed message. No war of words would have stopped IS--not even from other Muslims.

What this country has done about all the terrorist groups has been feeble and has accomplished practically nothing. Didn't you sense something wrong when Bush went after Sadam Hussein when he wasn't even involved in 9-11?

Most of us understood that was a trumped up war built on lies.

Bin Laden was not in anybody's sites until later. That probably had to do with the Bush family's friendship with the Bin Ladens.

It is not the "Bin Ladens". No, the U.S. built Bin Laden's wealth and power in Afghanistan by using him as a go-between to support the Afghans against the Soviets.

Terrorists have not been effectively monitored in this country, actually allowing them to move in and out with ease. Why is that? How can a man walk right up to a plane and put something in the luggage compartment and no body notices? This has happened all over the U.S. Could it be that catching terrorists isn't really at the top of any government official's list?

We have to have reason to suspect them. Racial profiling is outlawed--in other words we cannot pull aside every M.E. or Muslim person as a suspect. And this is correct. Don't worry--they have it covered now that we have lost our personal rights to privacy and our every phone conversation and email is scanned for suspect words.

When ISIS cut off people's heads on videos, and the world watched, where was any decisive action on this government's part?

This is your mixed message. What action do you expect from the U.S. than for us to deal with the problem with a terrorist group through which no diplomacy is going to be effective than to attack militarily? The American people did not want to go to war at that time, nor did Congress, and so we had to wait until it became abundantly clear that we would have to do something. We had been stretched too thin between Afghanistan and Iraq and we were still recovering from that.

Was the wimpy response due to fear that the U.S. would hurt civilians? LOL!!

Not at all. You really should be better informed. I think that you may find good background information online on PBS Frontline. They have information in print on the site and they have made at least two programs about ISIS, if I remember correctly, and they may be available online. If not, if you watch for it, you can catch them on PBS eventually, I think.

Civilians are being blown up and shot every day! So what could be the reason that the U.S. hasn't cleaned that demonic horde out of Afghanistan or wherever they are hiding?

They are most active in the area of Syria and Iraq, in the Sudan and northern Africa, have attacked Egyptians, Lebanese and others, although they claim no borders and have incidents to their credit as far away as Australia, France and Belgium.

Again: What do you expect will stop them and who do you suppose ought to do it?

I wouldn't trust this government to do anything that would mean something. This insane war has been going on for 15 years! With no end in sight. The body bags keep coming home. With no goals achieved, why keep sending Americans to get blown up by bombs and missiles and guns? ISIS is staying put, and no one can touch them. There's something wrong with that picture.

NOTE: It has not been one single conflict. It has not been instigated by one party or terrorist group. We have not fought one single group or nation all this time.

As far as IS: Our political action there is complex, we are supporting the Iraqi army along with a large coalition of other countries. The U.S. is having air strikes against IS but we have no boots on the ground except in supporting roles and volunteers.

So, looking at what's going on now....it's still too little, too late, if the effort is worth anything at all. If ISIS walked into the Whitehouse tomorrow I'll bet they would receive a handshake from Obama. You are placing your confidence in corrupt, evil morons to get rid of corrupt evil morons.

There is something to be said for not attempting to fight evil with evil. But we may actually have to have military action to solve some problems. Sometimes good people have to fight against aggression or allow people to suffer as so many have had to suffer from attacks by IS terrorists. Again: this is in the hands of the U.S. Government and is not a concern for most Christians and is not supported by most churches in any overt way.

I will wait for Jesus Christ to end the insanity. All signs point to him coming very soon.

You may do so.

"And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and wages war....

And guess who wins. Do we want to be standing with the "kings of the earth and their armies" when Jesus comes back?

Oddly enough, different Christians interpret these passages differently. But none of the above was concerning Christian belief--it is purely our secular government and its decisions that you have derided. If you want to sit and wait for what could have been the largest terrorist group that has ever existed to annihilate millions of innocents, to cross the borders of the U.S. and Canada, you can self-righteously loathe all those who think we need to stop them militarily in order to keep us and even you safe here at home.