Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:08 pm

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:54 pm

tam wrote:
No smoking IS a WTS rule, and a df'ing rule at that.

Nope.

â€œYou must love your neighbor as yourself,â€� he said. (Matthew 22:39)

How can a person follow the above when they are killing those around them?

In adults who have never smoked, secondhand smoke can cause:

Heart disease
It is estimated that secondhand smoke caused nearly 34,000 heart disease deaths each year during 2005â€“2009 among adult nonsmokers in the United States.

Lung cancer
Secondhand smoke exposure caused more than 7,300 lung cancer deaths each year during 2005â€“2009 among adult nonsmokers in the United States.

from the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statis ... ral_facts/

Killing someone with smoking is not 'loving your neighbor'.

tam · Post by **tam** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:56 pm

2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
1Cor 5:11 has to do with those who are doing as you suggested: leaving (or being df'd from) the wts because they do not wish to follow bible rules.

Then you stated that the WTS rules are all bible rules.

Both statements are false, and THAT is what I addressed.
Prove it.

Read and respond to the post that you refused to read and respond to then. I gave examples in that post.

Or don't. Your choice.

Peace again,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
I see no proof in your posts. I see unsubstantiated accusations. That is all.

At this point, then, I will let the content of my post stand, content of which refutes your claim that all wts rules are bible rules. You of course cannot prove true your unsubstantiated accusations against all the people who leave or are df'd from your organization, that they are doing so because they wish to break 'bible rules'.

I can offer you other valid reasons why some leave (or are df'd) that have nothing to do with any rules being broken from the bible.

I'm not going to start a new train of thought over the actual act of df'ing or shunning, as that is just deflection. But I can continue the conversation without referring to or even contradicting 1Corinth 5:11, at all, if you prefer to do it that way.

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:58 pm

tam wrote:
I'm not going to start a new train of thought over the actual act of df'ing or shunning, as that is just deflection. But I can continue the conversation without referring to or even contradicting 1Corinth 5:11, at all, if you prefer to do it that way.

You can start here.

Should any of the following scriptures be followed? Yes or no answer and then add your explanation for your answer. I say yes. What say you?

Romans 16:17 - "Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them."

2 John 9 - "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."

But I can continue the conversation without referring to or even contradicting 1 Corinth 5:11, at all..

I want 1 Corinth 5:11 and the scriptures above to be referred to in every conversation. I don't want you to continue without referring to the Bible. They can't be ignored from my point of view. Starting with how do you apply to your life 1 Corinth 5:11 if you apply it at all?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:18 pm

tam wrote: I can offer you other valid reasons why some leave (or are df'd) that have nothing to do with any rules being broken from the bible.

Yet more often then not, it's because there is something a person wants to do or believe but isn't supported by the Bible.

I'll bite though. Give me an example please.

tigger2 · Post by **tigger2** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:31 pm

marco wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
And your words speak for you avoiding what the Bible says. Again, if you don't want to follow what was written at 1 Cor 5:11. Then don't. If you want to shame us for following it that's fine. It's not you and your ways we are trying to serve.
Jesus taught people to go beyond mere words and act out of goodness and charity. The simplest thing is to go by what Christ did and said, rather than adhere to an impression of what Christ's message was about. Here is Jesus refuting those who tell us to shun the sinner:

Mark 2:13-17New International Version (NIV)

13 Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14 As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collectorâ€™s booth. â€œFollow me,â€� Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

15 While Jesus was having dinner at Leviâ€™s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: â€œWhy does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?â€�

17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, â€œIt is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.â€�

So much for shunning the sinner!

It's not so much avoiding the sinner. 1 Cor. 5:11 tells us to avoid the fellow Christian who is now a sinner. When he repents and continues a Christian lifestyle, he is to be welcomed back. This is to keep the congregation clean and to, it is hoped, influence the stray to return to a Christian life.

tam · Post by **tam** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:41 pm

[Replying to post 511 by tigger2]

So if someone no longer believes (like an atheist or an agnostic) and so no longer calls himself a brother, you would not shun them?

Peace to you as well,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

tam · Post by **tam** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:43 pm

Also, Christians sin. I mean, if Christians were not sinners, then they would have no need of Christ.

Peace again!

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:52 pm

tam wrote: [Replying to post 511 by tigger2]

So if someone no longer believes (like an atheist or an agnostic) and so no longer calls himself a brother, you would not shun them?

Peace to you as well,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

If that person went so far as to write the congregation saying as much. Then yes. The Bible is clear. 2 John 9 - "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."

Remember, the person must prove they no longer want to be part want to remain in the teachings of the Christ. There are many that just leave without anything. They are not disfellowshipped, they just don't come back. With DFing there must be indisputable evidence they no longer want to be part of the congregation.

tam · Post by **tam** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:56 pm

2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote: [Replying to post 511 by tigger2]

So if someone no longer believes (like an atheist or an agnostic) and so no longer calls himself a brother, you would not shun them?

Peace to you as well,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
If that person went so far as to write the congregation saying as much. Then yes. The Bible is clear. 2 John 9 - "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him."

Just for clarification:

I asked if you would not shun them.

I believe you answered yes... but meant that you would shun them. Yes?

In which case, the distinction that tigger made in the post I responded to is rather meaningless. Yes?

Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:01 pm

tam wrote: Just for clarification:

I asked if you would not shun them.

I believe you answered yes... but meant that you would shun them. Yes?

In which case, the distinction that tigger made in the post I responded to is rather meaningless. Yes?

If a person was a baptized member and they said to the elders that they no longer want to be a Jehovah's Witness, then yes, 2 John 9 would apply to that person. They would be DFed. Any person that knows the Bible knows what they are asking for when they say they no longer want to be a JW.