meaning of clouds

dio9 · Post by **dio9** » Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:27 am

Dan. 7:13 "As I watched in the night visions, I saw one like a human being coming with the clouds of heaven. And he came to the Ancient One and was presented before him."

Do you think this inspired the idea meeting the lord in the air on the last days?
Clouds are really used as a metaphor .
Jeremiah used clouds to describe the coming of the king of Assyria, 4:13 "Look! He comes up like clouds, his chariots like the whirlwind; his horses are swifter than eagles" woe to us, for we are ruined!"

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:52 am

dio9 wrote: But from the earliest days the Jesus people were thinking Jesus was God.

If by "earliest days" you are refering to the first century ie before apostate Christianity introduced false teachings, then no it is not true. Christs Apostles and early disciples absolutely did not think of him as being YHWH Jehovah Almighty God. They publically announced him to be the Son of God and never did they announce Jesus as God Himself.

That was a later "addition" that came with the apostacy Jesus predicted.

JW

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:16 am

[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]

[center]Was Jesus delusional?[/center]

JehovahsWitness wrote:
If by "earliest days" you are refering to the first century ie before apostate Christianity introduced false teachings, then no it is not true. Christs Apostles and early disciples absolutely did not think of him as being YHWH Jehovah Almighty God. They publically announced him to be the Son of God and never did they announce Jesus as God Himself.

That was a later "addition" that came with the apostacy Jesus predicted.

____________

Question:

In John 8:58 it says: "Very truly I tell you, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am! New International Version (NIV)

Was Jesus delusional?

____________

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:50 am

Blastcat wrote:In John 8:58 it says: "Very truly I tell you, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am! New International Version (NIV)

Was Jesus delusional?

I don't believe so, why do you ask? Was there anything in what I posted that prompted you to ask this of me in particular?

JW

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:03 pm

[Replying to post 43 by JehovahsWitness]

[center]
Was Jesus delusional?
Part two[/center]

Blastcat wrote:In John 8:58 it says: "Very truly I tell you, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am! New International Version (NIV)

Was Jesus delusional?

JehovahsWitness wrote:
I don't believe so, why do you ask? Was there anything in what I posted that prompted you to ask this of me in particular?

Yes, as a matter of fact, there is a reason.
I always have reasons.

I try very hard to make them really good reasons.

I quoted the statement that made me ask you the question... you said that "Christs Apostles and early disciples absolutely did not think of him as being YHWH Jehovah Almighty God."

It's easy with me.. I always quote what I'm about to comment on. So, you don't have to look too far for the why. I am responding to your statement. I quote it. I always quote what the other person says, so that everyone knows what the heck I'm going on about.

So, I wonder why you would say that ABSOLUTELY did not think of Jesus as a god when in Jesus' own words, he is the "I AM" that existed before Abraham did.

I wonder what you think the passage I quoted means.. It SEEMS to indicate that Jesus is talking nonsense ( delusional maybe ) or hinting rather blatantly that he is a god. Either way, as an agnostic and a skeptic, I wouldn't take that quote as proof of his SANITY, anyway.

He doesn't even seem to be able to use good grammar.
I can think of at least two ways that his "I am" statement could be interpreted, though :

1. He is older than Abraham. ( ? )
2. He is some kind of "I am" (?), whatever that's supposed to mean.

I ask the question in order to get your answer.
I never get it when people ask me "Why do you ask"?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:25 pm

Blastcat wrote: 1. He is older than Abraham. ( ? )
2. He is some kind of "I am" (?), whatever that's supposed to mean.

Yes Jesus is "older than Abraham" but then so is Satan, so what has that God to do with Being Almighty God?

I'll ignore the 2nd point, if you don't know what it means you obviously are not using it to counteract anything I said (since i presume you would have to understand it yourself to use it)

JW

dio9 · Post by **dio9** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:18 pm

[Replying to post 45 by JehovahsWitness]

Are you holding Jesus was the Christ before his birth. as John implied , Jesus was the Word?

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:44 pm

[Replying to post 45 by JehovahsWitness]

Blastcat wrote: 1. He is older than Abraham. ( ? )
2. He is some kind of "I am" (?), whatever that's supposed to mean.

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Yes Jesus is "older than Abraham" but then so is Satan,

oK ( ? )

Jesus was very old.
You learn something every day.

JehovahsWitness wrote:
so what has that God to do with Being Almighty God?

Huh?

"What has God have to do with Being Almighty God?"

Could you translate that into English?

JehovahsWitness wrote:
I'll ignore the 2nd point,

Well there you go.
Good for you.. it's easier that way, isn't it?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:44 am

dio9 wrote: [Replying to post 45 by JehovahsWitness]

Are you holding Jesus was the Christ before his birth. as John implied , Jesus was the Word?

Yes absolutely. Jesus, I believe is the only human ever to have a pre-human existence being the "firstborn of all creation" (the first thing God created) and identified by John as "The Word" he (Jesus) existed before the earth the universe, or any other spirit creature.

Making him (after his Father Jehovah) the oldest being in existence.

JW

dio9 · Post by **dio9** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:40 am

[Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]

Do you think there was a need for a savior redeemer before the world existed ? Something like a fix before the fall? If so it would seem God didn't have faith in humanity. The deck was stacked against us.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:55 am

dio9 wrote: [Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]

Do you think there was a need for a savior redeemer before the world existed ? Something like a fix before the fall? If so it would seem God didn't have faith in humanity. The deck was stacked against us.

Good question. No, there was no need for a savior or a redeemer before the first sin. Jehovah (God) is an optimist and it seems chose to have faith in mankind. Great observation also that had he done so, it would indicate that the first humans were created with a disadvantage that made the rebellion if not inevitable, likely. Just as a man informing his wife that he has another woman lined up should their own marriage fail, that measure would not inspire confidence in the arrangement.