If you don't believe the Bible.
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If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #1Christians will often insist that certain texts can't be understood to actually mean what is plainly stated. Given enough believers I imagine that most of the Bible would be in dispute. The question is, why should the sceptic believe the Bible if Christianity does not.[/i]
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #11[Replying to post 10 by postroad]
How do you get from, “Christians disagree about what this means,� to “Christians don’t believe that this is true�?
How do you get from, “Christians disagree about what this means,� to “Christians don’t believe that this is true�?
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #12[Replying to post 11 by bjs]
Oh come now! Let's not be obstinant here. Even within the minuscule population of thirsts represented here there exists a "difference " of opinions on matters of doctrine so central to orthodox Christianity that few centuries past would have been settled at the stake.
Oh come now! Let's not be obstinant here. Even within the minuscule population of thirsts represented here there exists a "difference " of opinions on matters of doctrine so central to orthodox Christianity that few centuries past would have been settled at the stake.
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #13[Replying to postroad]
Perhaps, but that does not answer my question. As far as I can tell there is no logical way to get from “Christians disagree about what this means,� to “Christians don’t believe that this is true.�
Perhaps, but that does not answer my question. As far as I can tell there is no logical way to get from “Christians disagree about what this means,� to “Christians don’t believe that this is true.�
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #14[Replying to post 13 by bjs]
Ah yes. Right. Most would believe that the Bible is the word of God but would sharply disagree about what that word actually conveys. Fine then. Why should I believe that the Bible is the revealed word of God when the body of Christ the believers and bringing the Jews on board here as well, are in dispute to its meaning and in fact many believe other factions to be in spiritually fatal error in its interpretation.
Ah yes. Right. Most would believe that the Bible is the word of God but would sharply disagree about what that word actually conveys. Fine then. Why should I believe that the Bible is the revealed word of God when the body of Christ the believers and bringing the Jews on board here as well, are in dispute to its meaning and in fact many believe other factions to be in spiritually fatal error in its interpretation.
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Youkilledkenny
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Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #15[Replying to post 14 by postroad]
I've also wondered why so many believers of the same thing can't agree on what the bible means in every detail?
Especially when they claim to have the help of 'the spirit'.
No one has ever been able to explain that to me to my satisfaction - and I'm not even that stringent on the matter.
I've also wondered why so many believers of the same thing can't agree on what the bible means in every detail?
Especially when they claim to have the help of 'the spirit'.
No one has ever been able to explain that to me to my satisfaction - and I'm not even that stringent on the matter.
Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #16[Replying to postroad]
You have posed a question as if your position is a forgone conclusion. However, you have not explained the reasoning behind your position. Why do you believe that a disagreement about the meaning of a text has anything to do with the accuracy of the text?
If people disagreed about a scientific theory, would you therefor reject every version of that theory? I assume not. What then is your reasoning for rejecting what the Bible says (or claiming that Christians don’t believe what the Bible says) because people disagree about interpretations of some passages? It appears to be a non-sequitur.
You have posed a question as if your position is a forgone conclusion. However, you have not explained the reasoning behind your position. Why do you believe that a disagreement about the meaning of a text has anything to do with the accuracy of the text?
If people disagreed about a scientific theory, would you therefor reject every version of that theory? I assume not. What then is your reasoning for rejecting what the Bible says (or claiming that Christians don’t believe what the Bible says) because people disagree about interpretations of some passages? It appears to be a non-sequitur.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
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Zzyzx
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Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #17.
Evidently in theological matters, opinion or 'interpretation' or 'creative linguistics' are used to decide that both can be true even if mutually exclusive.
More accurately, if two scientific theories are mutually exclusive (one says 'yes' in a specific case and the other says 'no', for example), they cannot both be right. If a determination cannot be made which is right, the matter is considered to be unknown or unresolved.bjs wrote: If people disagreed about a scientific theory, would you therefor reject every version of that theory?
Evidently in theological matters, opinion or 'interpretation' or 'creative linguistics' are used to decide that both can be true even if mutually exclusive.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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sawthelight
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Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #19Sure there is. Christians disagree with each other about the tenets of Christianity thus many branches and sects. They don't all believe in the other sects teachings because they don't believe them to be true.bjs wrote: [Replying to postroad]
Perhaps, but that does not answer my question. As far as I can tell there is no logical way to get from “Christians disagree about what this means,� to “Christians don’t believe that this is true.�
I don't know how the connection could not have been made 10 posts prior to this.
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sawthelight
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Re: If you don't believe the Bible.
Post #20Very true. If the supposed "spirit" is guiding Christians then unity would be taking place. Yet we have over 100 +denominations worldwide which means division is taking place, not unity.Youkilledkenny wrote: [Replying to post 14 by postroad]
I've also wondered why so many believers of the same thing can't agree on what the bible means in every detail?
Especially when they claim to have the help of 'the spirit'.
No one has ever been able to explain that to me to my satisfaction - and I'm not even that stringent on the matter.
Is the "spirit's" role to divide and confuse the people then?
