What is God responsible for?

[Willum]

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:

Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are God’s servants, and it is their duty to help you.

The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

[marco]

only each person can know if they are walking the walk.

This would be true if each of us had the same reservoir of intelligence and understanding. Many poor souls, through the good offices of the Almighty, don't have the ability to know which path they are on and divine clarification, as we see here, is a matter for loose interpretation. If one has a very important life-or-death message, why clothe it in metaphor about narrow gates?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 291 by 2timothy316]


"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength." Deut 6:4, Mark 12:30 "

I am just wondering what translation you are using.
I Googled Deut 6:4 and everyone gives 'the Lord our God is one Lord'.

If we see the Scripture as God-inspired we must respect the words as they are used.

As it says in the guidelines of this forum. "No single translation trumps another..." http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=11496

However, here are other translations. So when you said 'everyone gives 'the Lord our God is one Lord'.' You were incorrect.

http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/6-4.htm

American Standard Version
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:

Darby Bible Translation
Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;

World English Bible
Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is one:

Young's Literal Translation
Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;


In Hebrew, "šə-ma‘ yiś-r�-’êl; Yah-weh ’ĕ-l�-hê-nū Yah-weh ’e-ḥ��"

Which can be found here http://biblehub.com/text/deuteronomy/6-4.htm

Yah-weh can be found here. http://biblehub.com/hebrew/3068.htm

Brown-Driver-Briggs
יהוהc. 6823 i.e. יַהְוֶה

Proper name, of deity Yahweh, the proper name of the God of Israel

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 291 by 2timothy316]
There was absolutely nothing Josiah could have done to avoid his fate or keep God from executing judgement on the Jewish nation.

There was nothing that Judah could have done because of what they did and were still doing. Josiah didn't make Judah worship false idols and gods. In fact he tore down those things. Yet the people kept sacrificing their children to false gods and other horrible things. Neither Jehovah or Josiah forced them to do this. If they had changed their ways then they could have avoided destruction just like when Jehovah didn't bring destruction on Nineveh. (Jonah 3:10)

Now since you keep reiterating "there was absolutely nothing Josiah could have done to avoid his fate." Then is it safe to clarify that you believe the following scriptures to be false.

“It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, for the Almighty to do wrong!�—Job 34:10.

"Tell them, ‘“As surely as I am alive,� declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living. Turn back, turn back from your bad ways, for why should you die, O house of Israel?�’ - Ezekiel 33:11

“Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death.� (Jas 1:14, 15)

Is it safe to assume that you believe that God does act wickedly and that in order for His will to come true He would rather people keep their wicked ways? Are you saying that God would rather people do wicked things and when they don't, He forces them to do wicked things and when they do, He takes pleasure in killing them? Is it safe to assume that you believe that we are not enticed by our own desire to do wrong but God puts the desire to do wrong into people? Can I assume that you think that it is a person's righteousness, their turning from bad that keeps God's will from coming true, so therefore He fates a person to do bad?

Even though clearly the Bible disagrees with a yes answer. Can I put you down as a yes to the answers of these questions?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 304 by dio9]




[center]∼(p · ∼p)[/center]

So who really are letting God direct them in the way they should walk and does one identify a person that is 'walking in the way they should walk'?

only each person can know if they are walking the walk.

So, by that reasoning, everyone who is convinced that they are walking the walk ARE actually walking the walk.


But the problem with that is :

CONVICTION ≠ TRUTH

Or, in more general terms, ∼(p · ∼p)

[postroad]

[Replying to post 313 by 2timothy316]

Judah's fate was sealed during Ahab's reign. Ahab repented but judgement was only delayed.

1 Kings 21:20-29New International Version (NIV)

20 Ahab said to Elijah, “So you have found me, my enemy!�

“I have found you,� he answered, “because you have sold yourself to do evil in the eyes of the Lord. 21 He says, ‘I am going to bring disaster on you. I will wipe out your descendants and cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free.[a] 22 I will make your house like that of Jeroboam son of Nebat and that of Baasha son of Ahijah, because you have aroused my anger and have caused Israel to sin.’

23 “And also concerning Jezebel the Lord says: ‘Dogs will devour Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.’

24 “Dogs will eat those belonging to Ahab who die in the city, and the birds will feed on those who die in the country.�

25 (There was never anyone like Ahab, who sold himself to do evil in the eyes of the Lord, urged on by Jezebel his wife. 26 He behaved in the vilest manner by going after idols, like the Amorites the Lord drove out before Israel.)

27 When Ahab heard these words, he tore his clothes, put on sackcloth and fasted. He lay in sackcloth and went around meekly.

28 Then the word of the Lord came to Elijah the Tishbite: 29 “Have you noticed how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself, I will not bring this disaster in his day, but I will bring it on his house in the days of his son.�

There were more generations after Ahab including Josiah but eventually God did as he said he would Do you think it is just coincidence that Josiah went into battle and died in the same manner as Ahab? Although Ahab didn't turn tail and run for home when he was wounded.

1 Kings 22:29-38New International Version (NIV)

Ahab Killed at Ramoth Gilead

29 So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah went up to Ramoth Gilead. 30 The king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, “I will enter the battle in disguise, but you wear your royal robes.� So the king of Israel disguised himself and went into battle.

31 Now the king of Aram had ordered his thirty-two chariot commanders, “Do not fight with anyone, small or great, except the king of Israel.� 32 When the chariot commanders saw Jehoshaphat, they thought, “Surely this is the king of Israel.� So they turned to attack him, but when Jehoshaphat cried out, 33 the chariot commanders saw that he was not the king of Israel and stopped pursuing him.

34 But someone drew his bow at random and hit the king of Israel between the sections of his armor. The king told his chariot driver, “Wheel around and get me out of the fighting. I’ve been wounded.� 35 All day long the battle raged, and the king was propped up in his chariot facing the Arameans. The blood from his wound ran onto the floor of the chariot, and that evening he died. 36 As the sun was setting, a cry spread through the army: “Every man to his town. Every man to his land!�

37 So the king died and was brought to Samaria, and they buried him there. 38 They washed the chariot at a pool in Samaria (where the prostitutes bathed),[a] and the dogs licked up his blood, as the word of the Lord

[dio9]

[Replying to post 304 by dio9]




[center]∼(p · ∼p)[/center]

So who really are letting God direct them in the way they should walk and does one identify a person that is 'walking in the way they should walk'?

only each person can know if they are walking the walk.

So, by that reasoning, everyone who is convinced that they are walking the walk ARE actually walking the walk.


But the problem with that is :

CONVICTION ≠ TRUTH

Or, in more general terms, ∼(p · ∼p)

There is something in everyone called a conscience. An active conscience tells us if we are or aren't walking the walk.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 305 by 2timothy316]

And about the narrow Gate , that verse reminded me of the still "small' voice Elijah told us about. One has to listen carefully , its easy to be distracted.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 308 by ttruscott]

After Eve ate the serpent said ( paraphrase ) see you didn't die.
The serpent effectively made a liar out of God in Eve's mind. I call that spiritual death. this is the death Eve suffered . Wasn't it Jesus who said " fear not those who can kill your body , Fear those who can kill your soul. "

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 305 by 2timothy316]

And about the narrow Gate , that verse reminded me of the still "small' voice Elijah told us about. One has to listen carefully , its easy to be distracted.

“Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.� (Matthew 7:13, 14)

“one faith.� (Ephesians 4:5)

The Bible doesn't support that every road a person walks on leads to God. It doesn't support there are many faiths. In fact it is clear and yet sad that Jesus said most will not even find the correct road. Now the next question is, 'why can't they find it'? The Bible answers that too.

"For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn back and I heal them.�’ Acts 28:27

The original-language term rendered “unreceptive� indicates a heart that was “thickened,� or “fattened.� People simply don't want to hear what the Bible's Message has to say. Just like the people in Josiah's day. They heard what Zephaniah had preached. Zeph 3:7 shows the thoughts of Jehovah and how Judah responded, "I said, ‘Surely you will fear me {God} and accept discipline,’ So that her dwelling place might not be destroyed —I must call her to account for all these things. But they were all the more eager to act corruptly."

So people of today and the people of Josiah's day are pretty much the same. They hear it but don't respond and then when they hear they need to accept discipline they are more eager to act more wickedly.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 291 by 2timothy316]


"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength." Deut 6:4, Mark 12:30 "

I am just wondering what translation you are using.
I Googled Deut 6:4 and everyone gives 'the Lord our God is one Lord'.

If we see the Scripture as God-inspired we must respect the words as they are used.

Yes! And the original words were "Jehovah" is one Jehovah. The Tetragrammaton appears in that scripture in the Hebrew language it was originally written in. Various versions have REPLACED the Divine Name with "LORD." (Did you notice that "LORD" is in all upper-case letters? That distinguishes it from other "Lords," such as Jesus Christ, who was representing the one Most High LORD, Jehovah.)

So respecting the words as they were originally written is paramount. YHWH was used in the original writings.

Many versions today have realized the bungle and have put the Divine Name back where it belongs.


Young's Literal Translation, the King James Divine Name Bible, the Catholic Living Bible, and many others, have restored the Divine Name. Of older versions, the New Jerusalem Bible & Darby's translation left the Divine Name where it originally was written (the New Jerusalem Bible using "Yahweh," Darby using the familiar "Jehovah." The American Standard Bible of 1881 also used "Jehovah" throughout the O.T. renderings).


Young's Literal Translation of Deuteronomy 6:4:

"Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."