Is Satan capable of manipulating the internet?

[Willum]

There is a debate raging about Satan on another OP, but I think it is funny in the light of arguing about a non-existent creature.

Even so, Satan has a heck of a lot of powers. Typing I expect, might be one of them. Manipulating the internet, might be one of them.

Since God has a non-interference policy, and Satan does not -
What stops old Nick from completely manipulating mankind from the complete carrot and stick approach?

The amount of power he'd have, especially on forums like this one is frighteningly incalculable.

Since, that is game over, isn't this just another proof that Satan, and probably God himself just don't exist?

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 20 by JehovahsWitness]

Ok thanks for that explanation, are you saying then that it is more "lusting" after the flesh which is the problem than the nude body or pixels on a screen? For if so I would agree and then I think it makes sense, but that lusting is done as much by young girls as by grown men and to me it seems clear to be because of deceit in values taught many places outside of the net.

You believe then that God sees everything including porn, but without the lust right?

And so the problem is not the information, but primitive desire.

As such its not a problem to know how to build a atom bomb. The problem is desiring to use it to hurt people right?

Like with the internet. The problem is not that it has a lot of information, the problem is that people try to mislead and deceive about the information and go there to be "fooled" rather than get the truth to set free.

Have I understood that right?

I guess I am just trying to understand the attack on the internet as a tool by Satan, for I am not so familiar with that argument.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 20 by JehovahsWitness]

Ok thanks for that explanation, are you saying then that it is more "lusting" after the flesh which is the problem than the nude body or pixels on a screen? For if so I would agree and then I think it makes sense, but that lusting is done as much by young girls as by grown men and to me it seems clear to be because of deceit in values taught many places outside of the net.

We believe that pornography is bad no matter who is doing it, whether that be young girls or boys or older people. Of course we are all nude Under our clothes, so private nudity or nudity between a man and his wife is not a problem, but for us, to be nude in public or in the view of others for Entertainment (I am not refering to nudity for medical examinations or procdures) is wrong.



You believe then that God sees everything including porn, but without the lust right?


There is Nothing that escapes God's view, he is not subject to human weaknesses or temptations. Nor does He in our opinion, find amusement in observing people engage in harmful behavior.


And so the problem is not the information, but primitive desire.

No useful information is transmitted by pornography. It doesn't teach Young people about healthy sexual interaction, in fact it does the opposite giving them a distorted view of sexuality and desensatising them to obscene, harmful violent and unnatural images.


As such its not a problem to know how to build a atom bomb. The problem is desiring to use it to hurt people right?

A bomb is by nature destructive. They might be used to demolish a structure in order to clear or build something useful but in general we speak of bombs (rather than explosions) as a "deadly weapon of mass destruction". There is nothing that is constructive or useful about pornography, it cannot be used selectively to communicate something healthful and positive, so, for us, the problem is the *bomb* itself AND how it is used.

[JehovahsWitness]

Like with the internet. The problem is not that it has a lot of information, the problem is that people try to mislead and deceive about the information and go there to be "fooled" rather than get the truth to set free.

Have I understood that right?

Yes exatly, the amount of information is not problamatic, but some use the internet to spread lies, misinformation and to distort the Truth**.

I guess I am just trying to understand the attack on the internet as a tool by Satan, for I am not so familiar with that argument

Well neither am I really, I was just answering the question asked; it was a rather unusual one.

If you notice my first post I explained that we (Jehovah's Witnesses) believe the entire world system is under the control of the devil, in that he has at his disposal any organization or group that he wants which he can use to achieve his aims. I did not say that the interent is "a tool by Satan" I said it's a tool and he can should he so wish use it as he can use virtually anything in this system, since it (the system) belongs to him. If the internet was (your words not mine) "a tool of Satan" (end quote) then we Jehovah's Witnesses wouldn't use it. It's not a "tool of Satan" it's just a tool, technology. Like a pen is not a tool of Satan because Satan can use one... Satan (through his "ministers") can use the internet to spread lies but Jehovah through His own can also use it to spread truth.


The internet isn't just magic, it's a controlled technology, used by humans for communication, and as such Satan can use it to further his aims (** see above). I'm not speaking on the individual level (as in that he is making every webmaster type every word) far from it, but that it is a tool and no tool is beyond Satan's use should he so choose to use it.


JW

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 23 by JehovahsWitness]

No useful information is transmitted by pornography

Useful to who? there people who make millions on these images, and girls often make money on it too, and get the attention and affirmation they desire. And if the devil manipulates the internet, it would see he finds it pretty useful.

It doesn't teach Young people about healthy sexual interaction

Who does? I was never taught about healthy sexual interaction, nor was most other I have talked to about it, and I think this is part of the reasons young people seek it on the internet, for they get no answers about these feelings they have from family, religion, the media, government, schools or anyone else.
People are so afraid of the truth these days its pathetic.

in fact it does the opposite giving them a distorted view of sexuality and desensatising them to obscene, harmful violent and unnatural images

Why is it distorted or unnatural images? The pictures are of real natural bodies right?

A bomb is by nature destructive. They might be used to demolish a structure in order to clear or build something useful but in general we speak of bombs (rather than explosions) as a "deadly weapon of mass destruction". There is nothing that is constructive or useful about pornography

So you argue that atom bombs created by man, are more useful than pictures of bodies God create?

Yes exatly, the amount of information is not problamatic, but some use the internet to spread lies, misinformation and to distort the Truth**.

Ok, yes we agree very much on this point

Well neither am I really, I was just answering the question asked; it was a rather unusual one.

haha...that was what lured me here too

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 23 by JehovahsWitness]

No useful information is transmitted by pornography

Useful to who?

Useful to us as Jehovah's Witnesses. The best way I can illustrate it is if someone were to vomit, one wouldn't dig through the vomit to see if there was a bit of undigested carrot in their that could be eaten to get a bit of vitamin K.

As Jehovah's Witnesses in our culture family heads have the primary responsibility to oversee their child's education including age appropriate, accurate information about sex and relationships.

This is just our view, I understand it is unusual but that is just a fact about how we function as a group. We do not leave the educate our children as to morals and sexual behaviour to pornography.

JW

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

Vomit? That's a strange comparison since what you are speaking of is naked female bodies which I am sure plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses has enjoyed seeing in creating the many children so many of them have.

But I have talked to a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses and many seem very nice and sensible, except when they try to speak about the 144.000 elect, the two form of resurrection, Hell and afterlife.

Isn't it almost self-torture trying to debate your beliefs here with so many atheists?
How do you find the drive/motive?

[Willum]

[Replying to Hector Barbosa]

HB, JW,
I don't think you realize just how powerful the manipulation of information, is:
Information campaigns can make you vote or act any way.
If your friendly neighborhood Satan-man and his demons can present and tailor information specific to you it can make you respond inappropriately.

One you are mad to do that. you are more easily manipulated.
Taking on avatars of people you know and trust... etc..
Then there is passive seduction via the internet...

Pornography is direct, it relies on you - persuasion, manipulation and deception are powers you allege Satan has.

What defence would you have against Him if He has those powers you believe He has?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

Vomit? That's a strange comparison since what you are speaking of is naked female bodies which I am sure plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses has enjoyed seeing in creating the many children so many of them have.

Vomit is a good analogy I think for that which is unclean, repulsive, garbage. That is how we view pornography except that porn is more harmful. I do understand though that for non-witnesses it is hard for them to separate, what is morally unclean and unhealthy which is how we view the misuse of the body, from the body itself. Maybe I can help with an illustration.

Is a knife unclean? or bad, ugly or dirty? No. But if you use the knife to murder a baby, then Something bad, ugly, dirty and immoral has been done with that thing. In a similar way, for us, in our culture, it is possible to take Something clean, and by misusing it, make it "dirty". The body can showered but immorality makes the act dirty.

Anyhoo... I understand if the notion notion of pornography being unclean and harmful while the body itself, as created created clean and and beautiful is difficult for you to grasp. I think the notion that one can misuse ones body is difficult for non-witnesses to grasp. That we can find our beautiful children and babies clean but that pictures of naked adults (Heaven forbid children) engaged in sexual behavior for outside Entertainment, as bad, is I think foreign to many that are not Jehovah's Witnesses. But that's just the way it is.

[JehovahsWitness]

But I have talked to a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses and many seem very nice and sensible, except when they try to speak about the 144.000 elect, the two form of resurrection, Hell and afterlife.

I generally don't speak to atheists about bible teachings, can't see the point myself. But here if they ask it's an opportunity to publish on the net ideas that I believe are life saving and will appeal to the people we are looking for.

Isn't it almost self-torture trying to debate your beliefs here with so many atheists?


Not at all, it's fun! This site is well structure, well monitored, I get to document my answers... and I'm talking about my favorite topic and every once it a while I'll talk to someone sensible, like your good self.

How do you find the drive/motive?

If you have to ask you don't know many Jehovah's Witnesses...lol. Seriously our motivation comes from a desire to please God and do His will.



JW

[Hector Barbosa]

[Replying to post 27 by Willum]

Maybe I don't, maybe you don't know what I realize
I certainly agree with you about the manipulation of information on the internet, and of cause that includes pornography.

I am not sure how much power Satan has myself or how much of internet influence can be contributed to a influence by Satan since I have not concluded there even is a Satan. But it's a interesting idea for sure, and I can not prove there is no Satan, in fact I would tend to agree that the argument that one might exist does seem fairly plausible considering the state of the world and the lack of logic there really is in having a world of chaos, lies, greed, manipulation, crime, violence and hate.

So the main question is where does the source of good or evil come from?

Science has certainly not proven anything in this area, in fact it is one of the arguments which makes the theory of us coming from Apes seem rather dubious.
For there is no sign of Apes having morals or conscious thought to the same degree humans do, and there is no proof that morals or consciousness can be inherited from one species to another, in fact I think that's a rather illogical idea since morals and conscious thought does not seem to be something you can get from gene's or DNA, and if its a product of society then we would have to forget that society is created by people so that answer offers no solution.