Does God change his mind?

OnceConvinced · Post by **OnceConvinced** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:52 pm

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)

So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

shnarkle · Post by **shnarkle** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:53 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
shnarkle wrote:

I agree. God also knows what that free will decision will be.

No I don't believe God knows what each individual's future choices will be.

I mentioned this earlier -see link
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 314#848314

I read the link. It looks like you do agree that God knows what people will do, but that this doesn't impinge on his omnipotence. I don't think it impinges on his omnipotence either. This doesn't negate God's omniscience.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:01 pm

[Replying to post 111 by shnarkle]

Well if you mean does God have the ability to see into our individual futuses, then yes. If you mean God systematically does so and that our individual destinies are already decided, then no absolutely not.

In other words, the chances are God does not presently know if I will live or be destroyed at Harmageddon should I live to see that day.

He does not know if I'll live to see tat day (or get run over by a bus tomorrow)

If you agree on the above then we agree.

JW

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:08 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
I don't know. The Bible doesn't give a step by step explanation on how God made this come about. Yet I have no reason to jump to the conclusion that someone lost their freewill to make it happen. I'm not doing the 'what if' game either.

JAMES 1:13
When under trial, let no one say: I am being tried by God. For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. (also see Deut 34:2)

I think you're looking at things from the wrong angle. God didn't manipulate events to ensure his words came true he merely looked into the future and was able to predict what would happen, then had it reported it in advance as prophecy.

As I said earlier, foreknowledge is not causation. If I knew someone was going to fall of a cliff, is this the same as scheming to get them to a cliffs edge and then pushing them? What if I was nowhere near the event at the time? Does it no longer qualify as a prediction?

God does not deal with evil, he did not manipulate events or collaborate or use evil men to ensure his son suffered and died ... that was Satan. Jehovah he did not arrange for a bribe to be in place, He did not use his power to make sure someone would be at hand to spit in his son's face to fulfill that or any of the other Messianic Prophecies pertaining to his son's torture.

God allowed these things to happen, he knew they would happen he had no hand in making them happen because he cannot do any thing that is evil and his goodness can have no collaboration with wickedness.

Attributing to God the manipulations of Satan is what makes Satan happiest of all.

JW

So do you think that when Jehovah looked into the future He saw Judas, before he was even born, betraying Jesus? If so, that would mean Judas was fated and the future is fixed. Not by Jehovah but by something else.

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:35 pm

[Replying to post 112 by JehovahsWitness]

[center]
God's plan doesn't change[/center]

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Well if you mean does God have the ability to see into our individual futuses, then yes. If you mean God systematically does so and that our individual destinies are already decided, then no absolutely not.

If you think that God had a plan, then doesn't matter what we do or say or think... God's gonna get what God wants to get and NOTHING else. Surely no surprises, anyway.

He apparently knew exactly what I was gonna write right now.. it's all part of that plan you see. In effect, when he created the world, IF HE HAD A PLAN.. I was right there in it doing this.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:23 pm

2timothy316 wrote: So do you think that when Jehovah looked into the future He saw Judas, before he was even born, betraying Jesus? If so, that would mean Judas was fated and the future is fixed. Not by Jehovah but by something else.

But Tim, Judas isn't named in Prophecy. All that is said is that the Messiah would be betrayed by a close associate for 30 pieces of silver.

I won't presume to say what Jehovah saw or did not see, that would be going beyond what is written, but we know he only shared selected details which do not include who the betrayer would be, only that there would certainly be one. If Jehovah can be selective about what he chooses to know, surely he can be selective about who he chooses to know about. Judas always had a choice, he just made all the wrong ones.

JW

hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:37 pm

[Replying to post 67 by 2timothy316]

Well, I don't think God knew for sure, ahead of time, what would happen with Christ. God knows possibilities, but knowing possibilities is not knowing things as set in cement. Ahead of time., God knows God is taking risks;, but that's it, nothing certain.

hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:42 pm

[Replying to post 107 by JehovahsWitness]

I don't think God knew ahead of time all that was going to happen and then simply sat back and allowed it. The only way God could know the future as definite, ahead of time, is for God to have already decided it all. But then we would have no freedom. If we have freedom, can make choices, then we have to decide for ourselves; God cannot decide for us. And until we decide, the future is open=ended, a matter of possibilities, not something set in cement.

hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:44 pm

[Replying to post 81 by 2timothy316]

But our minds are continually changing. Just think of the changes one goes through in writing a simple sentence. No thinker thinks twice. Moment to moment, we are new people, if not for the fact we're a moment wiser.

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:49 pm

[Replying to post 117 by hoghead1]

[center]
God doesn't know what's going to happen, so when he made his plan.. he was a risk taking gambler.[/center]

hoghead1 wrote:
Well, I don't think God knew for sure, ahead of time, what would happen with Christ. God knows possibilities, but knowing possibilities is not knowing things as set in cement. Ahead of time., God knows God is taking risks;, but that's it, nothing certain.

God doesn't know for sure.
So much for that omniscience hypothesis

Hardly Christian

hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:52 pm

[Replying to post 90 by 2timothy316]

I think it most nave to argue that if Beethoven hadn't written his symphonies, for example, someone else would have. So I don't buy the argument that if Judas had not have done it, someone else would have. Reality doesn't work that way.

And I don't buy the argument that God always gets his or her way. If so, God would never be disappointed or angered by anything. But the Bible says otherwise.