Does God cause evil?

[DanieltheDragon]

Does God cause evil?

Some assert that God causes no evil. Is there cause to believe this is true. Can this position be supported. Is the character described in the bible incapable of evil?

I would assert that a position that claims God created everything would make him the original cause of evil. That God cannot escape being the cause of evil since he created any and all situations in which evil would arise.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 27 by American Deist]

As do I. I just take it one step further and attribute the creation of those laws to God.

And I could take it a step even further and declare that Popeye created God by eating his spinach. But, as with your declaration of the existence of God, that is simply making up a step and declaring it to be true. Since neither claim can be validated through empirical observation and experimentation, neither claim is scientific in nature.

I have never denied science. I support it 100%.

Einstein postulated that E=MC^2. E (energy) and M (matter/mass) are simply different states of the same thing. This has since been overwhelmingly proven to be accurate. The law of conservation of energy says that energy can neither be created or destroyed. This indicates that energy is eternal; it is finite in amount, but infinite in duration. Which means that no creator is possible. Do you still support science 100%, or is it true that you now about to equivocate in your support of science?

That is correct. Science can't give us all the answers. Aspects of our scientific knowledge could be wrong, or it could not be valid in another galaxy. Perhaps there are forces out there we have yet to encounter.

Science "can't" give us all the answers? Please demonstrate in what way this statement is anything other than yet another one of your unsupported declarations.

Or just our current understanding/definition is wrong. A tweak here and there tends to happen.

The fact that technology works just as conceived and designed is overwhelming evidence that what we currently understand concerning the nature of quantum mechanics is correct. We know what we know, and we have strong evidence that what we currently know is accurate. That does not mean that there isn't still much more yet to be learned.

Modern technology works based on the principles of empirical observation and experimentation. Modern technology DOES NOT work on the basis of make it up and declare it to be true. Which is why ancient Rome and Greece did not produce the technology to make modern electronic gadgets. Rome and Greece had no concept of quantum mechanics, and an understanding of quantum mechanics is required to produce electronic technology.

Indeed, though I say entity, not being.

Although I am not entirely clear on the difference, for the sake of future argument I will attempt to remember that.

Yes. I take it one step further to offer an explanation that, at this point in time, can't be disproven.

Notice that the claim that Popeye created your entity by eating his spinach cannot be disproven either. This is what is known as attempting to prove a negative. But you see, there is a point at which useful scientific inquiry ends, and pointless tail chasing begins. I would suggest that this point is reached when make it up and declare it to be true commences.

[theophile]

[Replying to post 30 by Willum]

So God creates two paths, one with evil, one not.
Because one path is not taken, does that mean he other fails to exist?

No, it remains there until taken, existing.

Umm, are you saying that creating the possibility of evil is the same as creating evil?

I see those as two separate things.

If God is responsible for life, and life makes possible evil, I don't think that makes God responsible for evil. Not if life has any say on the matter, and I think it does.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 30 by Willum]

So God creates two paths, one with evil, one not.
Because one path is not taken, does that mean he other fails to exist?

No, it remains there until taken, existing.

Umm, are you saying that creating the possibility of evil is the same as creating evil?

I see those as two separate things.

If God is responsible for life, and life makes possible evil, I don't think that makes God responsible for evil. Not if life has any say on the matter, and I think it does.

We need to first come to an understanding of what evil is. Believers often conceive of evil as a physical force in the world. This force is represented, according to common Christian belief, by Satan. But evil has no such physical existence. Evil is an opinion... a concept. And the concept of evil revolves around the hideous things that humans do to other humans. Hitler was responsible for the deaths of millions. He was evil according to common modern opinion. I doubt that his opinion of himself was that he was evil. Opinions differ.

For example, in the OT God orders the victorious Jews to hack to death entire groups of defeated peoples, including children and babies. And many Christians not only do NOT consider this to be evil, but entirely righteous. But there are those, myself included, who are of the opinion that chopping children and babies to death with the edge of a sword is the very definition of evil. So does God cause evil? GOD ORDERS EVIL! At least according to the OT.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 25 by DanieltheDragon]

Just stepping in to point out another thing God created...

Is your point that this means God created evil?

Okay, if God's creation of life also creates the possibility of evil, then sure, I agree.

But creating the possibility of evil is not the same as creating evil.

It certainly isn't the same as causing evil, which was the OP, and which I already replied to in the affirmative.

Is God all knowing(knows the cause and effect of actions)?
Did God create all things?
Does God define what is and is not sin?


If God is not the cause of evil or cannot be the cause of evil, then there should not or could not be evil. Alternatively, what we perceive as evil is not evil in this scenario, Hitler, Bundy, Pol Pot, Stalin, the green river killer, Boston strangler, ISIS, etc can't be evil if God cannot cause evil.

Take this for example if I get a pit bull and I know that if it is placed in a bad environment during its developmental stages that it will be aggressive and that it will have the physical capacity to inflict peril to a person. And I take this dog after it has been through such a environment and let it outside unrestrained, would I not be responsible if it bites someone?

[Willum]

[Replying to theophile]

I don't see how you could see them as two different things.
Can you explain, please?

[Donray]

Simple, If you believe god created all things then god created both good and evil.

[ttruscott]

Simple, If you believe god created all things then god created both good and evil.

May I suggest you consider the difference between simple and simplistic?

[American Deist]

Einstein postulated that E=MC^2. E (energy) and M (matter/mass) are simply different states of the same thing. This has since been overwhelmingly proven to be accurate. The law of conservation of energy says that energy can neither be created or destroyed. This indicates that energy is eternal; it is finite in amount, but infinite in duration. Which means that no creator is possible.

This again!!! You keep assuming my belief in God includes one that is actively creating in the universe. Multiple times I have said NO NO NO NO NO to a deity that is actively creating. Let that sink in this time.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Einstein postulated that E=MC^2. E (energy) and M (matter/mass) are simply different states of the same thing. This has since been overwhelmingly proven to be accurate. The law of conservation of energy says that energy can neither be created or destroyed. This indicates that energy is eternal; it is finite in amount, but infinite in duration. Which means that no creator is possible.

This again!!! You keep assuming my belief in God includes one that is actively creating in the universe. Multiple times I have said NO NO NO NO NO to a deity that is actively creating. Let that sink in this time.

Scientific observation indicates that the universe operates entirely for natural reasons because the universe is composed of energy and energy interacts with itself. You indicate that the deity you believe exists is no longer "actively creating in the universe." What difference can to offer which would demonstrate that there is a difference between the deity you believe in, and a universe in which no such deity ever existed to begin with? And from where do you come by this informations?

[Donray]

Simple, If you believe god created all things then god created both good and evil.

May I suggest you consider the difference between simple and simplistic?

I considered it and simple applies.

Why no address the basic issue of did god create everything?