Love your enemies

[Blastcat]

I'm looking for Bible verses that support "love thy enemies" and "Kill whoever God doesn't like today."

In the Bible, I think it was in Matthew 5:44 where it says that we should love our enemies, and in the OLD testament, there are very many passages where people kill people on the command of God.

I think there are about a dozen of those direct commandments...

So, the questions for debate is:


"Are Christians being instructed to not hate their enemies, but to hate to the point of killing whoever God considers to be an enemy?"

P.S.

I owe the idea of Christians having to hate God's enemies from Divine Insight in Post 107: Question for Atheists/Naturalist

[onewithhim]

[quote="JehovahsWitnessHanging I read can go wrong and lead to an agonizingly long death.

So because hanging, a relatively painless death might go wrong, it makes sense to instead abandon it as a whole and slowly stoning someone to death instead?

[quote="JehovahsWitnessIn any case, as most people know, a sharp blow to the head usually renders someone unconscious and a huge rock dropped on one's head would mean that there would be a good chance without much skill the individual would not feel anything after that initial impact.[/quote]
What makes you think the people aimed for the head? There is no mention in the stoning laws of "oh and if you could, try your best to aim for the head".[/quote]
Your objections are implausible. The same could be said of the hangman....like a stone-thrower who isn't interested in making death painless, the hangman might just carelessly knot the noose to ensure a slower death. There could be sadists in every execution scenario, I would venture to say. Be that as it may, we put a certain amount of trust in the hangman, as we do the person who pulls the switch on the electric chair, so why not give the stone-thrower the benefit of the doubt?

[Justin108]

Your objections are implausible. The same could be said of the hangman....like a stone-thrower who isn't interested in making death painless, the hangman might just carelessly knot the noose to ensure a slower death.

Then have the law specify the procedure.

There could be sadists in every execution scenario, I would venture to say.

In order to make a hanging painful, you would need to go out of your way to do so. This is not true for stoning. Chances are, if you stone someone to death, it will be excruciating. So what makes more sense? To employ an execution method that might be painful if something goes horribly wrong? Or to employ a method that will most certainly be painful unless the guy is extremely lucky and loses consciousness after the first hit? Statistically speaking, which method would most likely be painless?

Be that as it may, we put a certain amount of trust in the hangman

Yes as he is a professional tasked at performing specified procedure. Biblical law, on the other hand, just has random civilians stone people to death in the streets. Take a guess at which execution will go off more smoothly, cleanly and painlessly?

as we do the person who pulls the switch on the electric chair, so why not give the stone-thrower the benefit of the doubt?

1. There were no appointed stone-throwers.

Deuteronomy 21:21

Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones.

2. Executioners follow precise methods to assure a quick and painless death. There are no such stipulation of clean killing methods in the Bible. Exodus goes in excruciating detail on how to perform a sacrifice. But when it comes to taking a life? "Oh just throw them with stoned until they're dead". There is no mention of "please aim for the head". No mention of "try to make it quick".

You simply cannot compare stoning someone to the electric chair. You cannot compare trained executioners to random Israeli civilians

[onewithhim]

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[zjsd26]

Love Your Enemies means to show you forgiveness and compassion to everybody. The greatest commandment is to love God with you all of your heart, mind, strength and soul and to ''love your neighbor as yourself'' Hating someone can be dangerous, Christ said if you hate your brother, you committed murder in your heart. Since God is love, we are called to love as well. Love Your Enemies means you are forgiving the person for the wrongs that they did, you accept reality and you are moving past it. As Christians we should be pure in heart and not let our evil deeds get the best out of us. Other examples can be from the parable of the Good Samaritan, that shows the true meaning of what love really is.

[bluethread]

1. There were no appointed stone-throwers.

Deuteronomy 21:21

Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones.

This is not true. Deuteronomy 17:7 'The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you. This is to discourage perjury and capricious verdicts. If a witness is found guilty of perjury, that witness would have to endure the same fate.

2. Executioners follow precise methods to assure a quick and painless death. There are no such stipulation of clean killing methods in the Bible. Exodus goes in excruciating detail on how to perform a sacrifice. But when it comes to taking a life? "Oh just throw them with stoned until they're dead". There is no mention of "please aim for the head". No mention of "try to make it quick".

You simply cannot compare stoning someone to the electric chair. You cannot compare trained executioners to random Israeli civilians.

That is true, the professional executioner makes it clean and tidy and the rest of us can pop off to the pub for a pint of bitters, none the wiser.

[onewithhim]

Love Your Enemies means to show you forgiveness and compassion to everybody. The greatest commandment is to love God with you all of your heart, mind, strength and soul and to ''love your neighbor as yourself'' Hating someone can be dangerous, Christ said if you hate your brother, you committed murder in your heart. Since God is love, we are called to love as well. Love Your Enemies means you are forgiving the person for the wrongs that they did, you accept reality and you are moving past it. As Christians we should be pure in heart and not let our evil deeds get the best out of us. Other examples can be from the parable of the Good Samaritan, that shows the true meaning of what love really is.

Very true. However, God is also concerned with incorrigibly evil people being able to stay around to inflict harm on good people. He doesn't insist that we forgive ALL bad people and dismiss their cruelties. Only when someone bad asks forgiveness and changes his ways. If he/she doesn't want to change, what are the good people to do? They would always be living in fear. I am very glad that God promises to eliminate all evil from our world. Would it be showing love to the good people for God to ignore the evil?

"Cease from anger, and forsake wrath; fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth." (Psalm 37:8,9, KJV)

.

[Justin108]

1. There were no appointed stone-throwers.

Deuteronomy 21:21

Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones.

This is not true.

I quoted Deuteronomy and you're telling me it's not true? Or are you suggesting that the Bible makes false claims?

Deuteronomy 17:7 'The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you. This is to discourage perjury and capricious verdicts. If a witness is found guilty of perjury, that witness would have to endure the same fate.

That doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day, "all the people" end up stoning the the victim. The fact that it starts with a few witnesses, then extends to the rest of the civilians shows how long such a procedure lasts. If stoning was a quick death, the witnesses should be able to get the job done before the rest of the people have a go. Regardless, whether they are random civilians or witnesses, my point is they are not trained executioners. They are civilians.

That is true, the professional executioner makes it clean and tidy and the rest of us can pop off to the pub for a pint of bitters, none the wiser.

All I see is a terrible attempt at humor. Did you actually have a point here?

[onewithhim]

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Geesh, I forgot what I said. Can't believe I did a one-liner! Sorry.

[ttruscott]

1. There were no appointed stone-throwers.

Deuteronomy 21:21

Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones.

Since this was practically an impossibility for a city of any size, it is suggested that "all the people " were held to have fulfilled the job when Moses and the 70 (Num 11:16-17) put their hand it, that is, everyone threw a stone by their hands. If they were not available, then the duly appointed officials stood in...

2. Executioners follow precise methods to assure a quick and painless death. There are no such stipulation of clean killing methods in the Bible. Exodus goes in excruciating detail on how to perform a sacrifice. But when it comes to taking a life? "Oh just throw them with stoned until they're dead". There is no mention of "please aim for the head". No mention of "try to make it quick".

Deuteronomy 17:7 "The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. Non-biblical rabbinic literature tells us the method was for the criminal to be struck off a 2nd story roof by the witness with a large rock. Then the elders threw the stone pile on the corpse. GOD orders what to do, people make up the methodology.

The evil that needed to be purged was not the criminal but his presumptuous intent to flaunt YHWH to HIS face, scorning HIM that HE should make such stupid laws in the first place. This cannot be the retribution for sins of error, going astray without intent to be oppositional because that is taken care of by a sacrifice: the law of the sin offering, Leviticus 4:1-35; 24-30: specifically to atone for unwitting sins, sins of error (sheghaghah), mistakes or rash acts, unknown at the time, but afterward made known.

The evil to be purged was his attitude against YHWH and Moses, his adversarial contemp shown in his actions, not that he needed to cook his meal. If he had enough sticks to be noticed, he may have been making a spectacle of his gathering a huge bundle to sell to his neighbours who needed them but chose to keep the law.

[ttruscott]

1. There were no appointed stone-throwers.

Deuteronomy 21:21

Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones.

As usual, only your interpretation is wrong...

Since this was practically an impossibility for a city of any size, it is suggested that "all the people " were held to have fulfilled the job when Moses and the 70 (Num 11:16-17) put their hand it, that is, everyone threw a stone by their hands. If they were not available, then the duly appointed officials stood in...

2. Executioners follow precise methods to assure a quick and painless death. There are no such stipulation of clean killing methods in the Bible. Exodus goes in excruciating detail on how to perform a sacrifice. But when it comes to taking a life? "Oh just throw them with stoned until they're dead". There is no mention of "please aim for the head". No mention of "try to make it quick".

Deuteronomy 17:7 "The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. Non-biblical rabbinic literature tells us the method was for the criminal to be struck off a 2nd story roof by the witness with a large rock. Then the elders threw the stone pile on the corpse. GOD orders what to do, people make up the methodology.

The evil that needed to be purged was not the criminal but his presumptuous intent to flaunt YHWH to HIS face, scorning HIM that HE should make such stupid laws in the first place. This cannot be the retribution for sins of error, going astray without intent to be oppositional because that is taken care of by a sacrifice: the law of the sin offering, Leviticus 4:1-35; 24-30: specifically to atone for unwitting sins, sins of error (sheghaghah), mistakes or rash acts, unknown at the time, but afterward made known.

The evil to be purged was his attitude against YHWH and Moses, his adversarial contemp shown in his actions, not that he needed to cook his meal. If he had enough sticks to be noticed, he may have been making a spectacle of his gathering a huge bundle to sell to his neighbours who needed them but chose to keep the law.