Fulfilled prophesy convincing evidence of Bible's authorship

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McCulloch
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Fulfilled prophesy convincing evidence of Bible's authorship

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

JehovahsWitness claims that the contents of the bible present convincing evidence of its Divine origin. The third reason of three given is that it records history before it has happened.

Questions for debate:
  1. Is the Bible a reliable predictor of future events?
  2. Have any of the Biblical prophesies failed?
  3. Is fulfilled prophesy convincing evidence of the Bible's divine authorship?
JehovahsWitness wrote:QUESTION How do we know the bible (canon) is the word of God?

The contents of the bible present convincing evidence of its Divine origin.

#3 It records history before it has happened. The bible records historical dtails and events long before (in some cases hundreds of years) before they happened. This presents its most convincing evidence of Divine authorship since humans do not have the ability to see into the future.

CONCLUSION: The contents of the bible, its historical and scientific accuracy, its prophetic detail, as well as the practical benefits millions have drawn from applying its principles, convinces many that it is not just an exceptional book but, is what it claims to be, "the word of God".
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #51

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 49 by alexxcJRO]




RELATED POSTS


RELATED POSTS

The Babylonian siege of Tyre [Nebuchadnezzar]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 67#p871167

WHO does the bible predict would destroy TYRE? [Ezekiel 26, 27]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 96#p868896

Did the bible wrongly predict the PERMANENT destruction of Tyre?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 28#p824428

Did the rubble of Tyre end up in the SEA?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 01#p871201

Forty Year Egyptian desolation [Ezekiel 29:9-11]
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 31#p824431
Further reading (non-Witness)
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/20 ... ament.aspx[/quote]



To learn more please go to other posts related to ...BIBLICAL PROPHECY , MESSIANIC PROPHECY and ... LAST DAY PROPHECY
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat May 08, 2021 1:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #52

Post by alexxcJRO »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
alexxcJRO wrote: You never addressed this:
You said:
Further note the expression as found in the New World Translation (NWT) "time indefinte". While most bible read "forever" or "never", the Hebrew word in the original text oh-lam carries the thought of indefinite or uncertain time (strongs #2759: lasting, long (time)).
But when we go to the Jehovas Witness.org website which uses the New World Translation we see the term "never" being used.
Yes, my original answer referred to the NWT 1984 Edition which used the term "time indefinite"; our website (www.jw.org) uses the revised 2014 version.

NWT - 1984
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/Rbi ... cover&v=21


I can see why this could cause some confusion so I apologize about that.

JW
Q: Why are you lying, huh? :-k :-s :shock:
In NWT 1984 Edition Ezekeil 26:14 clearly says Never will you be rebuilt.

+14 And I will make you a shining, bare surface of a crag.+ A drying yard for dragnets is what you will become.+ Never will you be rebuilt; for I myself, Jehovah, have spoken, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.+
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/Rbi ... y=discover


Please answer this question:
Q: Is the prophesy of the 40 years desolation of Egypt a fulfilled prophesy?
(Yes/No Question)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
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Post #53

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 50 by JehovahsWitness]
Yes, my original answer referred to the NWT 1984 Edition which used the term "time indefinite"; our website (www.jw.org) uses the revised 2014 version.
Even if this were true (thanks alex for digging up the 1984 edition!)...why are you basing your points on an older version of the NWT? Wouldn't you, as a JW, hold to the most recent edition to be published, the one that has the official backing of the JW organization?
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Post #54

Post by JehovahsWitness »

alexxcJRO wrote:In NWT 1984 Edition Ezekeil 26:14 clearly says Never will you be rebuilt.
The original comment (posted October 2016 & re-posted in this thread post#33 ]) wasn't made about Ezekiel 26:14 (see below)
JehovahsWitness wrote:
TYRE'S DESTRUCTION

Does Ezekiel 26:21 and 27: 36 indicate Tyre would never be rebuilt?

[ul]Ezekiel 26:21 reads in the New World Translation (NWT): Sudden terrors are what I shall make you, and you will not be; and you will be sought for, but you will no more be found to time indefinite, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

Chapter 27: 36 of the same book reads "As for merchants among the peoples, they will certainly whistle over you. Sudden terrors are what you must become, and you will be no more to time indefinite." [/ul]
Firstly as noted, Ezekiels prophecy applies to the Babylonian (not the Grecian) conquest which would indeed be a temporary one. Further note the expression as found in the New World Translation (NWT) "time indefinte". While most bible read "forever" or "never", the Hebrew word in the original text oh-lam carries the thought of indefinite or uncertain time (strongs #2759: lasting, long (time)).

Lexicographer Gesenius defines it as meaning hidden time, i.e. obscure and long, of which the beginning or end is uncertain or indefinite. (A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, translated by E. Robinson, 1836, p. 746). So while ohlam CAN of course mean forever (ie without end, especially when associated with other terms such as "adh" (everlasting/eternity) or "netsach" (forever/always)) "ohlam" it is not, in itself, a synonyme of unending or forever; it often refers to things that have an end, but the period of such things existence can be said to be to time indefinite because the time of their end is not then specified. (. (Ex 31:16, 17; Ro 10:4; Ga 5:18; Col 2:16, 17; Heb 9:15, Ex 40:15; Heb 7:11-24; 10:1.)

I provided the link for the 1984 version (here they are again) and apologized for any confusion caused. I apologize again if my apology wasn't clear enough.


NWT - 1984 REFERENCE BIBLE (online) Link
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/binav/r1/lp-e/Rbi8/E/1984

Ezekiel 26:21
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/Rbi ... cover&v=21

Ezekiel 27:36
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/Rbi ... cover&v=36
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Post #55

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 54 by JehovahsWitness]
The original comment (posted October 2016 & re-posted in this thread post#33 ]) wasn't made about Ezekiel 26:14 (see below)
It's not just verse 14 that is in issue. There is plenty of language throughout Ezekiel Chapter 26 that indicates Tyre was supposedly to be destroyed forever.
As for your apology for using the 1984 version...do you acknowledge that you (seemingly wilfully in my eyes) deliberately used an out of date translation without telling us, knowing full well that the more up to date version, the one that is more readily accessible on the JW website does NOT say what it is in the 1984 version?

There's a word for this.
Disingenuous.
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #56

Post by alexxcJRO »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
alexxcJRO wrote:In NWT 1984 Edition Ezekeil 26:14 clearly says Never will you be rebuilt.
The original comment (posted October 2016 & re-posted in this thread post#33 ]) wasn't made about Ezekiel 26:14 (see below)
JehovahsWitness wrote:
TYRE'S DESTRUCTION

Does Ezekiel 26:21 and 27: 36 indicate Tyre would never be rebuilt?

[ul]Ezekiel 26:21 reads in the New World Translation (NWT): Sudden terrors are what I shall make you, and you will not be; and you will be sought for, but you will no more be found to time indefinite, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

Chapter 27: 36 of the same book reads "As for merchants among the peoples, they will certainly whistle over you. Sudden terrors are what you must become, and you will be no more to time indefinite." [/ul]
Firstly as noted, Ezekiels prophecy applies to the Babylonian (not the Grecian) conquest which would indeed be a temporary one. Further note the expression as found in the New World Translation (NWT) "time indefinte". While most bible read "forever" or "never", the Hebrew word in the original text oh-lam carries the thought of indefinite or uncertain time (strongs #2759: lasting, long (time)).

Lexicographer Gesenius defines it as meaning hidden time, i.e. obscure and long, of which the beginning or end is uncertain or indefinite. (A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, translated by E. Robinson, 1836, p. 746). So while ohlam CAN of course mean forever (ie without end, especially when associated with other terms such as "adh" (everlasting/eternity) or "netsach" (forever/always)) "ohlam" it is not, in itself, a synonyme of unending or forever; it often refers to things that have an end, but the period of such things existence can be said to be to time indefinite because the time of their end is not then specified. (. (Ex 31:16, 17; Ro 10:4; Ga 5:18; Col 2:16, 17; Heb 9:15, Ex 40:15; Heb 7:11-24; 10:1.)

I provided the link for the 1984 version (here they are again) and apologized for any confusion caused. I apologize again if my apology wasn't clear enough.


NWT - 1984 REFERENCE BIBLE (online) Link
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/binav/r1/lp-e/Rbi8/E/1984

Ezekiel 26:21
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/Rbi ... cover&v=21

Ezekiel 27:36
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/Rbi ... cover&v=36


But my posts were always about Ez. 26:14 as you can see:

Post 17, post 20 of the thread Spotting God's Inspiration in the Bible
viewtopic.php?t=32678&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
Post 39, 43, 47 of this thread.
viewtopic.php?p=871290#871290
viewtopic.php?t=32735&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

Q: So why would keep diverting the attention to Ez. 26:21, 27: 36; when I was talking about Ez. 26:14; huh? Disingenuous much? :eyebrow:

Therefore my posts were not in fact rebutted. Therefore the prophesy is dead wrong. (both NWT 1984 and NWT 2014 editions use "never": Never be rebuilt, You will never be rebuilt). 8-)


Let's not avoid things.
Please answer this question:
Q: Is the prophesy of the 40 years desolation of Egypt a fulfilled prophesy?
(Yes/No Question)
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
"God is a insignificant nobody. He is so unimportant that no one would even know he exists if evolution had not made possible for animals capable of abstract thought to exist and invent him"
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."

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Post #57

Post by otseng »

alexxcJRO wrote: Q: Why are you lying, huh?
Moderator Comment
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Post #58

Post by Kenisaw »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Kenisaw wrote:Daniel 11 predicts ... that Antiochus IV Epiphanes (the Greek king of the Seleucid Empire) would die in Palestine. He died in Persia.
What verse are you refering to, I know of no verse in the bible that mentions Antiochus IV Epiphanes can you provide a reference please.

JW
I might have got the chapter wrong. But a simple google search....

http://www.prophecyforum.com/antiochus.html
https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... -epiphanes
http://www.ucg.ca/booklets/bible-and-ar ... -come-pass
http://ap.lanexdev.com/APContent.aspx?c ... ticle=4224

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Post #59

Post by rikuoamero »

[Replying to post 58 by Kenisaw]

I think JW's point is that Antiochus isn't named outright, so therefore in his mind, Daniel is not about Antiochus and cannot be about Antiochus.

Of course, if my guess is correct, this rules out Jesus too, because Daniel also does not name Jesus outright.
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I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead

Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense

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Post #60

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Kenisaw wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
Kenisaw wrote:Daniel 11 predicts ... that Antiochus IV Epiphanes (the Greek king of the Seleucid Empire) would die in Palestine. He died in Persia.
What verse are you refering to, I know of no verse in the bible that mentions Antiochus IV Epiphanes can you provide a reference please.

JW

I might have got the chapter wrong. But a simple google search....

http://www.prophecyforum.com/antiochus.html
https://www.christiancourier.com/articl ... -epiphanes
http://www.ucg.ca/booklets/bible-and-ar ... -come-pass
http://ap.lanexdev.com/APContent.aspx?c ... ticle=4224

None of those links contain a bible verse with the name Antiochus IV Epiphanes in it. I have a concordance and I've looked it up, the name is definitely NOT in the bible.




JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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