Is evolution a controversial science?

[McCulloch]

Both religion and controversial science could be taught in elective College courses where they belong.

He was referring to evolution as controversial science. While there may be quite a number of legitimate controversies within the science of biology regarding evolution, evolution itself is not a controversy at all among biologists.

Question for debate: Is evolution as taught at the high school level, a controversial science? Is there any controversy among currently practicing biologists regarding the basic science behind evolution?

[JP Cusick]

... the way it is in reality. Often it's the smarter who overrule the less intelligent.

and evolution teaches racism as it pretends that the white race is the highest evolved,

It never taught me that. I'm guessing it only teaches people that who already are racist and already see themselves as superior.

The comment you gave above (top) demonstrates that you learned it quite well.

It is important to understand that the distinction is subtle concerning the racism attached to Darwinism, and it is just a little white lie.

As like this = " the smarter [ happen to be white ] who overrule the less intelligent [ happen to be non white ]. "

[KenRU]

... the way it is in reality. Often it's the smarter who overrule the less intelligent.

and evolution teaches racism as it pretends that the white race is the highest evolved,

It never taught me that. I'm guessing it only teaches people that who already are racist and already see themselves as superior.

The comment you gave above (top) demonstrates that you learned it quite well.

It is important to understand that the distinction is subtle concerning the racism attached to Darwinism, and it is just a little white lie.

As like this = " the smarter [ happen to be white ] who overrule the less intelligent [ happen to be non white ]. "

I challenge you to show evolution teaches this. Please provide a link, URL or some form of verifiable evidence that you speak the truth.

I'll wait patiently....

[Bust Nak]

Only in your wildest of dreams.

Here in reality land the secular evolution supports massive exploitation along with lust and greed based on cruel and violent methods.

That's Christianity you are thinking of. In the land of "secular evolution" we lean left politically, in contrast to the Christian right.

Okay, I concede, if physics teaches nothing useful to daily life then it too is wrong to teach in elementary or High School.

Both physics and evolution could be selective College level courses.

Children drop out of school because the education is uninteresting and unchallenging and children really do not like useless information.

Not useful in daily life doesn't imply not useful in specific cases. The world needs scientists and engineers.

The beauty of self education is the great fun and adventure of feeding our own interest.

The down side is you put yourself in danger of ending up uneducated. The risk really isn't worth it.

As like this = " the smarter [ happen to be white ] who overrule the less intelligent [ happen to be non white ]. "

Ironically, you are the only person here who has mentioned that the smarter happens to be white. So who is being racist here exactly?

[OnceConvinced]

... the way it is in reality. Often it's the smarter who overrule the less intelligent.

and evolution teaches racism as it pretends that the white race is the highest evolved,

It never taught me that. I'm guessing it only teaches people that who already are racist and already see themselves as superior.

The comment you gave above (top) demonstrates that you learned it quite well.

How is saying that the smartest will often overrule the less intelligent, racist? I never mentioned anything about race. Intelligence has nothing to do with what race you are.

When I said that I was thinking about governments, church leaders and people like that manipulating and controlling the people. Skin colour or race never came to mind. Why did it come to your mind?

It seems to be you, the Christian that is bringing race into this. Do you think white people are more intelligent than black? If so who/what taught you that?

It is important to understand that the distinction is subtle concerning the racism attached to Darwinism, and it is just a little white lie.

I have never once said that any race is smarter than any other. You are the one who Is implying that. Is that what Christianity teaches? It seems to be you that wants to bring the race card into it.

Evolution to me teaches that we are all in the same boat. All evolving and all striving to survive and better ourselves. No matter what colour skin you are and no matter what country you are from.

As like this = " the smarter [ happen to be white ] who overrule the less intelligent [ happen to be non white ]. "

Ahha! Just as I thought. It is you that is the one bringing in the racist slurs. I have never insinuated that non-white people are less intelligent than white people. I have also never once been taught that in evolution classes, and believe me I was looking for anything I could to trash evolution. I was looking for anything to trash evolution for nearly 40 years. Not once did I see it as teaching racism. I never have see and nobody ever taught me to.

Some people may like to take evolution and try to turn it into racism, just like people like to take their religions to push their negative agendas. From what I can see though, it is Christians like yourself who are trying to teach that evolution = racism. It very much seems to be you on this thread, that is for sure.

[Kenisaw]

Reading and writing, sure, but not people do not use physics in our daily lives, same with math to a lesser extent.

It is as useless as physics, so why single out evolution?

Okay, I concede, if physics teaches nothing useful to daily life then it too is wrong to teach in elementary or High School.

Both physics and evolution could be selective College level courses.

Children drop out of school because the education is uninteresting and unchallenging and children really do not like useless information.

The beauty of self education is the great fun and adventure of feeding our own interest.

Just wanted to point out that people do, in fact, use physics in their daily lives. Most don't realize it, but they use it in all sorts of ways.

Your computer, phones, and other electronic devices wouldn't exist if we didn't understand quantum mechanics.

Your GPS device relies on the theory of relativity for the GPS satellites in orbit to stay accurate.

Every interstate in the U.S. is designed based on what we know about friction, kinetic energy, and so forth when designing the radius of curves for the road surface.

Physics is all over the place, and our society depends on that knowledge a great deal...

[JP Cusick]

How is saying that the smartest will often overrule the less intelligent, racist? I never mentioned anything about race.

That is because you applied it to the here-and-now.

That the smarter are more evolved here-and-now, while the less intelligent are evolved that way here-and-now.

You said that the evolution divides people here-and-now into the higher evolved from the lower evolved = the smarter overrule the less intelligent.

That is the stance of white racial superiority based on Darwinism. Link Scientific Racism

This was also the founding basis for the org "Planned Parenthood" to murder (abortion) as many black babies as possible to suppress the less evolved.

Darwinism was also a huge basis for the atrocities of Nazi Germany too.

I have never once said that any race is smarter than any other. You are the one who Is implying that. Is that what Christianity teaches? It seems to be you that wants to bring the race card into it.

I am not trying to blame you personally and I am not calling you personally as a racist - certainly not - but the theory of evolution includes a racist message which is widely understood.

I attack the message and not the messengers.

It seems to be you, the Christian that is bringing race into this.

You are the one who Is implying that. Is that what Christianity teaches? It seems to be you that wants to bring the race card into it.

I am being a traitor and a snitch against my own white race by telling this secret that science and Darwinism give us whites the upper level of evolution.

I do not like it.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 56 by JP Cusick]

That is the stance of white racial superiority based on Darwinism. Link Scientific Racism.

Here is the first paragraph of that link (bolding mine):

"Scientific racism (sometimes race biology or racial biology[1] or pseudoscientific racism) is the pseudoscientific study of techniques and hypotheses in order to support or justify the belief in racism, racial inferiority, or racial superiority;[2][3][4] alternatively, it is the practice of classifying[5] individuals of different phenotypes or genotype into discrete races. Historically it received credence in the scientific community, but is no longer considered scientific.[3][4]"

Can you please explain how you think Darwinism relates to racism? Nothing in the accepted, scientific, theory of evolution (not pseudoscientific BS) corroborates your claim that Darwinism implies a stance of white racial superiority. Yet you keep saying this as if it were some kind of fact. Where do you get this idea since it does not exist in actual Darwinism? Did you just make it up in your own head, or is it something you were told by a religious group and, without actually studying the theory of evolution itself, are regurgitating here? As has been pointed out ... you are the only one here making this claim but as yet you have not provided any support or explanation for why you believe this nonsense.

[JP Cusick]

Here is the first paragraph of that link (bolding mine):

"Scientific racism (sometimes race biology or racial biology[1] or pseudoscientific racism) is the pseudoscientific study of techniques and hypotheses in order to support or justify the belief in racism, racial inferiority, or racial superiority;[2][3][4] alternatively, it is the practice of classifying[5] individuals of different phenotypes or genotype into discrete races. Historically it received credence in the scientific community, but is no longer considered scientific.[3][4]"

If we dig deeper (which most people never do) then it is acknowledging that the scientific racism use to be - but now it is no longer considered scientific.

So it is not considered scientific but it is still considered to be racism.

And it does not say by whom? - as in who no longer considers it as scientific? - as if every person in the USA use to considered it as scientific racism - but now none of them consider the racism to be scientific?

My understanding is that lots of people still consider Darwinism to be scientific racism.

Of course to deny the racism is what white people have always done, as like many whites deny that slavery was racist, after all the slavery was just economics, which is what I call another white lie.

For us whites we do not need to confess the racism of Darwinism because we reap the benefits of it just by being white.

Can you please explain how you think Darwinism relates to racism? Nothing in the accepted, scientific, theory of evolution (not pseudoscientific BS) corroborates your claim that Darwinism implies a stance of white racial superiority. Yet you keep saying this as if it were some kind of fact. Where do you get this idea since it does not exist in actual Darwinism? Did you just make it up in your own head, or is it something you were told by a religious group and, without actually studying the theory of evolution itself, are regurgitating here? As has been pointed out ... you are the only one here making this claim but as yet you have not provided any support or explanation for why you believe this nonsense.

I am calling the scientific racism as a white lie, so no I am not going to explain why it is true.

Actual and true Darwinism does not exclude God or a Creator or an intelligent design, but the racist and Atheist version of Darwinism excludes all those.

See link here = What Darwin Said About God ~ American Thinker

The evolution as taught today teaches a low self esteem based on telling people that they are nothing more than animals who live in a world where the stronger overrule the weaker (survival of the fittest) and evolution teaches racism as it pretends that the white race is the highest evolved, PICTURE, and by excluding morals and values then evolution teaches the public to disregard such spiritual things.

So we say that the racist view is wrong - so what is new about that? - the racist view has never before been concerned about accuracy or truth.

The scientific view of evolution is just another tool in the racist tray.

My understanding is that the BIG shift came around the years when Black people protested for improved civil rights (1954-1968) and the Black people were using Christianity and Christian doctrine to support their movement (and rightly so) and as such the white people who had misused Christianity as their own source of power saw that their power base in Christianity was fading away, so a vast number of whites switched over their allegiance to Darwinism because Darwinism gave the whites a new basis for their white superiority and of course for the Black inferiority, and that is what still fuels the switch over today.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 58 by JP Cusick]

Of course to deny the racism is what white people have always done, as like many whites deny that slavery was racist, after all the slavery was just economics, which is what I call another white lie.

This is an entirely different subject. I don't deny that there are plenty of racists in the world ... I'm just arguing against your claim that Darwinian evolution leads to a conclusion that white skin is a goal of evolution and that having it means someone is "higher evolved" or superior in some way. That is what is nonsense because evolution clearly does not conclude that or imply such a thing. If people use the theory in some way to try to justify their racism that is a different matter altogether. But evolution itself does not justify that view, and people who use it as some excuse for white racial superiority are either ignorant, or intentionally misrepresenting the theory.

The evolution as taught today teaches a low self esteem based on telling people that they are nothing more than animals who live in a world where the stronger overrule the weaker (survival of the fittest) and evolution teaches racism as it pretends that the white race is the highest evolved, PICTURE, and by excluding morals and values then evolution teaches the public to disregard such spiritual things.

You've made this statement before and posted a link to that old cartoon. Did you not look at it and notice that it is the absence of full-body fur coverage that might be responsible for the color change from left to right? Many (and all young) chimpanzees have light skin under their fur, and as noted before light skin in humans developed as selection against low UV sunlight levels at higher latitudes, and against skin cancers. If you take a bunch of lilly white Irish men and women and put them naked with no modern vitamins or supermarkets (for food or sun screen) on a tropical island for 10,000 - 20,000 years and come back at the end of that time you'd find a lot of darker skinned people drinking Guinness. Evolution would ensure that (maybe not the Guinness part), and the reverse experiment (tropical dark skinned people to Ireland) would result in the percentage of lighter-skinned people in that population being far greater than at the beginning. Eventually you'd end up with dark skinned Irish in the tropical location and light-skinned people in the high latitude location (Ireland). Evolution would ensure this because of the original populations many of the Irish would die from skin cancers and reproduce less, and many of the tropical people would die from vitamin D deficiency with the same result, and skin color would tend towards light at the high latitude location, and dark at the tropical location. Evolution 101.

(Edited to add this in anticipation of a typical response: if you did the above experiment today the Irish would wear clothes and/or sunscreen to protect themselves in the tropics, and the tropcial bunch would buy vitamin D supplements or food enchanced with vitamin D in Ireland. They would then reproduce at normal rates and the evolutionary force driving a skin color change would not be present).

The scientific view of evolution is just another tool in the racist tray.

Another repeat, but I think you are confusing what the theory of evolution actually is, and what some people may do to use it to support their racist views. These are two completely different things. Evolution does not lead to any conclusions about superiority of any skin color over another or that light skin is "higher" evolved, but certainly there may be people who try to use it that way (as you are very clearly doing).

[JP Cusick]

I'm just arguing against your claim that Darwinian evolution leads to a conclusion that white skin is a goal of evolution and that having it means someone is "higher evolved" or superior in some way. That is what is nonsense because evolution clearly does not conclude that or imply such a thing.

Evolution of secular science really does push the racist ideal and it is more than just an implication.

The fact that humanity first began in darkest Africa as black people directly evolved from animal like humans, and then as humans evolved further they traveled north and then west into Europe where they became the higher evolved white race.

That is simple basic evolution, and it implies and promotes the racist ideal of white superiority.

It is not complicated.

Link QUOTE = " Previous studies have found that genetic differences in human populations can be explained by distance from Africa. " ~ National Geographic

In religion all people are equal (evolving equally), and God our Father is evolving all of humanity into the children of God.