Jesus and his Father, forever apart?

[JehovahsWitness]

"angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven" Matthew 18:10

Since, Jesus will spend eternity on the earth (or travelling back and forth between the spirit and the physical realm), but the bible indicates that angels that will spend eternity in heaven with The father (see Matthew 18:10 above) I have a question:


#1 Do you think Jesus will be jealous of the angels?

#2 Do you think Jesus will miss time he spent constantly at his Fathers right hand side before the earth even existed (John 1:1)?

#3 Could God not have found a way for Jesus to rule the earth while at the same time being with Him (YHWH) in heaven?

#4 Where will God live when he (God) is ruling afer Jesus finally hands back the kingdom to his Father and "all things are subject" to Him [YHWH/Jehovah]?






My question is directed of course at those that believe Jesus and his Father will NOT spend eternity together in heaven in the same way as they were in the beginning.

[JehovahsWitness]

It is about whether or not God is really going to take a group of humans who he originally purposed would inhabit this earth and make them angels.

I'm more confused than ever now, are you suggesting there will be no heavenly ressurection? That no humans will go to heaven to be with Jesus and God?

Evidently we won't be able to see them ...

So? So what?! Are we not walking by faith and not by sight?

That is not a rhetorical question, what are you saying we need to see the 144,000 for their work with God under the leadership of Jesus to be effective? (Not rehtorical)

Our separation from God is spiritual, not physical. The things pictured in the scriptures are illustrative of spiritual relationships. And that is something vastly different than occupying a specific location.

We don't have the special born again relationship blessing with it's advance token of the holy spirit to help us.

Paul was, we believe he speaking of the spiritual condition of the anointed 144,000 while humans on earth. This passage has nothing to do with those that will be living in paradise. Being "born again" is another way of speaking about those chosen to be in that special group of 144,000 with a "token" or a promise of future life as a spirit in heaven to spend eternity with Jesus.

We will yet be unholy until the end of the thousand years when the rest of the dead finally are brought to life (spiritually speaking)..

I don't believe the bible speaks of this group as being "unholy". That which is holy is that which is set apart for God's special use; even now in our imperfect state God views his people as clean, holy and by his undeserved kindness, his special possession. We (Jehovah's people) enjoy His blessing now, we will enjoy those blessing during the entire period of 1000 years. We will never be viewed as "unholy" (read unclean) see Revelation 7:14

REVELATION 7:14
So he replied, These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, They are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple;

I tried to explain fully the relationship we hope to have on earth with God as we progress towards perfection, perhaps I didn't do a very good job.




JW

[Left Site]

But what I am saying is that it seems as if they, like so many other religious groups, tend to think of the separation in terms of distance in miles.

I think you misunderstood the point I am questioning here. In fact it is the exact opposite. The OP was inspired by posters that imply that Jesus had to be on the physical location of the earth to rule it, that God, has to literally descend onto this planet to be with us and that true unity with God can only be enjoyed by being in heaven. None of which I believe to be true. For me such conclusions imply that God and Jesus (and humans) has to literally be within the geographical perimeters to enjoy spiritual intimacy.

The whole point is that location is irrelevant to an infinite God, that his spirit has no limites and we humans (who are physical beings and are limited to operate within time and space) can indeed have a relationship with God (who is not) without God "moving" anywhere. That Jesus' authority can be exercised from heaven (which is a "spiritual realm") without the necessity of him literally leaving his Father to be on this planet.

If anyone is limiting God I think it is those that think He must literally live on Israeli soil to fulfill his purposes.

JW

Right now the only way that imperfect man is able to have that relationship with God is through the elect of God who act as priests under the high priest Christ Jesus. We yet have that remnant with us making that possible.

So again I ask, If the rest of the dead don't come to life until the end of the thousand years and that remnant is no longer here during that thousand years, how are we to share their connection with God? After all, if they have gone to live in that unapproachable light with Jesus, no man will be able to see them according to 1 Timothy 6:16.

Or, is 1 Timothy 6:16 perhaps only indicating that no man can see that unapproachable light? The light which Christ dwells in? But they may yet see Christ when he shows himself to them here on earth like the angels that materialized?

[Left Site]

It is about whether or not God is really going to take a group of humans who he originally purposed would inhabit this earth and make them angels.

I'm more confused than ever now, are you suggesting there will be no heavenly ressurection? That no humans will go to heaven to be with Jesus and God?


JW

The more I see the more that is what I am beginning to believe. I have also been pondering the anti-typical figures under the Old Law and the Holy and Most Holy Compartments to get a better sense of what the future is for those under priests. I know that Jesus' death rent the curtain dividing those sanctuaries. And i know that curtain is said to have represented man's imperfect flesh (not perfect flesh but imperfect flesh). Think about that. Surely those under priests could not enter through that curtain while yet imperfect spiritually as the great crowd will yet be in the thousand years before the rest of the dead are returned to life at it's end. So that curtain had to represent man's imperfection spiritually which it seems merely came to be summed up as flesh due to it having been brought on by man serving his flesh rather than God, which is what Adam did.

[JehovahsWitness]

So again I ask, If the rest of the dead don't come to life until the end of the thousand years and that remnant is no longer here during that thousand years, how are we to share their connection with God?

By means of his holy spirit. Were you under the impression that Almighty God's holy spirit isn't up to the job?

MATTHEW 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

[Left Site]

So again I ask, If the rest of the dead don't come to life until the end of the thousand years and that remnant is no longer here during that thousand years, how are we to share their connection with God?

By means of his holy spirit. Were you under the impression that Almighty God's holy spirit isn't up to the job?

MATTHEW 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

His holy spirit was up to the job for the 144,000 and he gave them a token to help them. But I am told that only the 144,000 receive that extra help the same as I am told that only they are born again via that token.

So now how will it work for us if we are not also given that extra help?

[JehovahsWitness]

So now how will it work for us if we are not also given that extra help?

As far as that specific reference to "the token" is concerned I have explained how we understand it.


So now how will it work for us [...] ?

I cannot give you all the details of HOW God will bring us back to perfection. The bible explains the means (the ransom) and those that will play a role (the Priests/144,000). It also indicates where they will be while doing this (with God in heaven) and where the benefactors will be (right here on earth). I cannot give details of who and in what circumstances the neccessary help needed will be administered to the physical (human) inhabitants of the earth. I cannot tell you more than the bibe reveals. Revelation speaks of scrolls being opened in the new world, possibly with further information as the the logistics of things... there are a number of scriptures that may be interpreted to give indications of earthly representatives of the kingdom (the kingdom is the government of 144,000 members ruling from heaven) but more we do not know at present.

What I can tell you we don't need to see God, Jesus or the 144,000 for God's promises to be fulfilled. That insisting Jesus and his bride must be on (physical location) the earth is to limit God's Almighty power. I can tell you that humans will reach perfection. Jesus and his 144,000 rulers will perfectly fulfill their commission that during the 1000 years many blessings will be enjoyed culminating in mankind regaining perfection. We have Almighty God's sworn oath on these matters, what more do we need?


We have no need to fear that things won't work out because of locality whether that be the locality of Jesus himself or his "bride".

[JehovahsWitness]

It is about whether or not God is really going to take a group of humans who he originally purposed would inhabit this earth and make them angels.

I'm more confused than ever now, are you suggesting there will be no heavenly ressurection? That no humans will go to heaven to be with Jesus and God?


JW

The more I see the more that is what I am beginning to believe.

** Do you believe JESUS went to heaven?

** We know Jehovah is in heaven and Jesus claimed he was going his way to the father, what did he mean?

**He promised his apostles where he was there they also would be, what did he (Jesus) mean?

** Revelation speaks for the first resurrection as well as kings that will rule with Jesus (who went to the Father, who "art" in heaven) what did this mean?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 27 by JehovahsWitness]



"** We know Jehovah is in heaven and Jesus claimed he was going his way to the father, what did he mean? "

If Jehovah is in heaven, who runs the universe?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 27 by JehovahsWitness]



"** We know Jehovah is in heaven and Jesus claimed he was going his way to the father, what did he mean? "

If Jehovah is in heaven, who runs the universe?

Jehovah does. Why do you ask?

[Left Site]

It is about whether or not God is really going to take a group of humans who he originally purposed would inhabit this earth and make them angels.

I'm more confused than ever now, are you suggesting there will be no heavenly ressurection? That no humans will go to heaven to be with Jesus and God?


JW

The more I see the more that is what I am beginning to believe.

** Do you believe JESUS went to heaven?

** We know Jehovah is in heaven and Jesus claimed he was going his way to the father, what did he mean?

**He promised his apostles where he was there they also would be, what did he (Jesus) mean?

** Revelation speaks for the first resurrection as well as kings that will rule with Jesus (who went to the Father, who "art" in heaven) what did this mean?

Yes, I believe Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of the Father (that "right hand" being an illustrative his relationship to God rather than an exact location in God's house of many abodes.

We are told at places like 1 Kings 8:27 that the physical heavens cannot contain (as in cannot hold bound) God.

**He promised his apostles where he was there they also would be, what did he (Jesus) mean?

Matthew 18:20 "... where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."