Questions about the Earth

[servant]

Did science or the bible first note that the earth hangs on nothing?

Did science or the bible first note that the earth was a circle and not flat?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 61 by Trump]

I cannot see China, but I do see with my 10" Celestron ships disappear into the horizon as the angle of our perception gets smaller and smaller with distance. What I don't see is the 8" drop per mile squared curvature.

The angle of our perception is the most made up thing I have ever heard. Go to a field stick a sign in the field with words on it about 5 inches. Walk 500 paces away try and read the words with the naked eye. Now read the words with your 10" celestron.

Or point your telescope to Jupiter use a 25mm eye piece then try a 10mm eye piece. Use a 2x Barlow and use no Barlow. The resolution of what you can see changes with magnification. There is no vanishing point!

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 70 by Trump]

There is absolutely no evidence of either curvature, us spinning and twirling through the vacuum of space, (which would make the pendulum do all kinds of crazy things ) all proof is against the sun being 92.96 million miles away, and so on. You are defending your belief, while I'm talking about what I have observed.

Let's see ... in one post you've claimed to be a JFK conspiracy theory supporter, believe that ISS is an aluminum foil mockup on a weather balloon, think that quantum mechanics and relativity are science fiction math invented for nefarious purposes, that the Earth does not spin on its axis every 24 hours so that a point on the equator is moving at roughly 1000 miles/hr (equatorial radius is 3963 miles so a more accurate number is 1040 MPH), that the sun is not 93 million miles away from Earth, and have nothing but YouTube references to support your ramblings.

Not very convincing to say the least! That you are dead wrong on all points is proven by real science and observation (save perhaps the JFK event, although none of the conspiracy theories have held any water to date). Fortunately, people with opinions like those you hold are yelling from the bottom of a very deep hole, and no one grounded in the real world of science is listening.

[Trump]

[Replying to post 61 by Trump]

I cannot see China, but I do see with my 10" Celestron ships disappear into the horizon as the angle of our perception gets smaller and smaller with distance. What I don't see is the 8" drop per mile squared curvature.

The angle of our perception is the most made up thing I have ever heard.

So why else do things get smaller with distance? Do you know trigonometry?

Go to a field stick a sign in the field with words on it about 5 inches. Walk 500 paces away try and read the words with the naked eye. Now read the words with your 10" celestron.

Come on now, I know enough about magnification without taking that heavy thing and setting it up.

How about this, why is it that planes flying at 35,000 feet elevation see the horizon at eye level?

Now take a small toy plane and go over your Globe at home, and then raise the toy plane up higher and higher. Now pretend you are in the cockpit looking out, what would you see?
You will see the horizon drop lower and lower until you would have to plant your face against the windshield trying to look straight down to get a glimpse of the Globe, until it just disappeared out of your sight.

Or point your telescope to Jupiter use a 25mm eye piece then try a 10mm eye piece. Use a 2x Barlow and use no Barlow. The resolution of what you can see changes with magnification. There is no vanishing point!

Jupiter is not a planet, it's not the distance we've been brainwashed with. The moon is also not what we've been told, look at this video and please start to peek outside the box we all been put in.

[alexxcJRO]

Paranoia? I thought no personal attacks on this Forum, and you start your post with one? Besides, where do you see paranoia in the out of context list you provided from my post above?

When you believe everything is a conspiracy your are what's called "paranoid".
When you say the following: "So says NASA with the tongue of a snake over the S on their emblem."
This is beyond paranoid and weird, borderline delusional, saying the way a symbol look it is relevent or not to whether one should trust an organisation or not.

also, every school whether theist/atheist provides a globe-earth in their science classrooms, I doubt I could provide one school that doesn't, .. does that prove the earth is a sphere?
Besides Neil Degrassee said the earth is really pear shaped, now how could all those space agencies you listed missed that? Show me ONE pic of earth as pear-shaped?

Nonsensical again.
Earth is not a sphere. Earth is an oblate spheroid.
Here:

Not spending, raking in billions of dollars. I doubt any of those artist renderings of planets cost more than $30 - $40 each.

Wrong again.
Gonverment space agencies and private companies have spent billions of dollars on shuttles(Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, and Atlantis), shuttle carrier aircraft, satelites, rockets, helium ballons, the ISS, landing facilities, and so one. There is no doubt on this.
Total Cost of NASA's Space Shuttle Program ammounts to almost $200 Billion alone.
https://www.space.com/11358-nasa-space- ... 1500199078

As always, it's about money and power.

LOL. Wait what? )
Q: People could not have substantial money and power if we all would believe it's flat ?
Q: Why would a specific form of the Earth prevent people for having substantial money and power?!!!
Your are not making any sense.

For a ride.

When they go in orbit they go for a ride too. This does not answer the question.
Q: Where do the shuttles go after launch?

Most are paintings, artists rendering, just read the small print.

Can you show me how did you figure out that this picture is CGI:

You mean like the evidence for gravity? What I say is obvious as the nose on our faces.

Positive claims require positive evidence.
Trying to shift the burden of proof only makes your case look weak.
So please provide some conclusive evidence to support your positive claims.

I specifically shown you NASA supposed satellite photos of earth, and it clearly shows stars behind it. Please don't use pre-school to 2nd grade indoctrination on me, I am well beyond that now, thank God.

Q: What is so hard to understand?!!!

Stars can be seen with your eyes both from the moon and Earth only in daytime.
If you take a photo with longer exposure you would see stars in space. But if don't you won't see stars in space in the pictures.
A short exposure will catch the details on the surface but not give enough time to gather much (if any) light from the stars. A longer exposure might get the stars, but the entire surface would be one huge white splotch as it's overexposed.

C: Therefore you can have both pictures with stars in them or not depending on the exposure time.

I was talking about the actual weather-balloon ISS. Yes, we can enlarge the size by mathematics claiming it is much farther away. NASA employs some really good mathematicians to figure out what the aluminum foil ISS should look like to match the imaginary distance.

There is math behind these illusions too you know!

We can justify any illusion with math.

Wait what?!!!! What illusion. There is no illusion, just plain simple trigonometry.

Q: Do you understand trigonometry?



Here i have done the math myself using basic Trigonometry Formulas from Right Triangle:


https://academic.evergreen.edu/projects ... c/trig.htm

and you've seen this when?
Stand at the side of a freeway and I tell you those cars passing you by at 60mph are actually a mile away, now tell me what the speed of a car would be at my suggested distance?

Easy.
You can take two points of reference A and B. If you know the distance between point A and B and the time it took the car to go from A to B you can calculate the speed via the formula:

v = d/t (where d - distance, v - speed, t - time).

http://www.softschools.com/formulas/phy ... ormula/75/

Yes, the timing of the balloon launches with the many aluminum-foil ISS are critical, ...

Nasa can't know when a random observer wants to watch, observe the ISS. Therefore it can't time the return flyby after 90 min. Therefore if we have multiple random observation from random people show the ISS 90min return consitently can only mean the flyby is not some conspiracy orchestrated by Nasa.

I see, you want to debate the Pendulum that it proves the earth is moving. Have they considered tectonic-plate movements? How are us animals to evolve if we are not surfing on the water?

How about live feeds that we can all access of two pendulums, one by the equator traveling 1,000mph with the rotation of your globe, and the other at the North pole where the Earth spins 1mph.

Besides, how do they know what the Foucault pendulum supposed to do when stationary if the earth is always spinning?
People have done 24 hour gyroscope experiments close to the equator where the earth supposedly spins at 1,000mph and shown absolutely no movement.

Remember, even 500 years ago they put a globe in every science classroom, so there is no expense spared, including this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5JTb_7qv78&t=21s

There is absolutely no evidence of either curvature, us spinning and twirling through the vacuum of space, (which would make the pendulum do all kinds of crazy things ) all proof is against the sun being 92.96 million miles away, and so on. You are defending your belief, while I'm talking about what I have observed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5i_iDyUTCg&t=72s

You long ramblings are irrelevant just meant to muddle the waters and not bring any substantial contra-argument.

Q: What is so hard to understand?

If he earth were not rotating, the Pendulum wouldn’t precess, it would just swing through the same arc over and over, never tracing out any different path than the one it started on.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to post 73 by Trump]

How about this, why is it that planes flying at 35,000 feet elevation see the horizon at eye level?

Now take a small toy plane and go over your Globe at home, and then raise the toy plane up higher and higher. Now pretend you are in the cockpit looking out, what would you see?
You will see the horizon drop lower and lower until you would have to plant your face against the windshield trying to look straight down to get a glimpse of the Globe, until it just disappeared out of your sight.

ROFL! OK ... how big is your toy plane relative to the globe, and how far above the globe is the plane being raised? A typical commercial airliner flies at about 38,000 feet, or 7.2 miles and is about 150' long. The diameter of the Earth is about 8,000 miles! Make a toy globe and plane of those same relative dimensions and do your little experiment again. What do you find? How high do you have to raise the toy plane before the horizon disappears? Now convert that back to the height you would need for a real plane flying above the real (spherical) Earth and tell me if it is realistic for a commercial airliner to fly at that altitude (hint, the answer is no).

Jupiter is not a planet, it's not the distance we've been brainwashed with.

Do you run the IAU? This isn't a YouTube link so you may not accept it as a reference, but you should read up on Kepler's laws of planetary motion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kepler%27 ... ary_motion

We can determine the mass of a planet and its orbital radii using these three laws along with Newtonian gravity. If Jupiter were not at the distance it actually is at (regardless of whether you consider it a planet or not) then it would not have the observed orbital period that we can measure directly. These things are related, as Kepler showed over 500 years ago. You have some catching up to do on basic geometry (the toy airplane and globe), and orbital mechanics. Come join the rest of us in the real world.

[Trump]

Paranoia? I thought no personal attacks on this Forum, and you start your post with one? Besides, where do you see paranoia in the out of context list you provided from my post above?

When you believe everything is a conspiracy your are what's called "paranoid".

So because I see that the Earth is flat, this means I believe in every conspiracy which means I am paranoid? Can we just debate without name calling and diagnosing me with paranoia please? That is why I'm here for, civil, friendly debate.

When you say the following: "So says NASA with the tongue of a snake over the S on their emblem."
This is beyond paranoid and weird, borderline delusional, saying the way a symbol look it is relevent or not to whether one should trust an organisation or not.

So now I'm beyond paranoid and weird, I'm borderline delusional?

If I look through my telescope and see a star, but you show me a drawing of some science fiction planet and tell me that is what I see, I have to accept it?

Are you suggesting that we should not judge a book by its cover, but look and examine the pictures they provide in the book first? I did, and that's why I made those comments.

also, every school whether theist/atheist provides a globe-earth in their science classrooms, I doubt I could provide one school that doesn't, .. does that prove the earth is a sphere?
Besides Neil Degrassee said the earth is really pear shaped, now how could all those space agencies you listed missed that? Show me ONE pic of earth as pear-shaped?

Nonsensical again.
Earth is not a sphere. Earth is an oblate spheroid.
Here:

I'm sorry, but besides insulting me, are you making fun of me too? I complained about NASA artist rendering and CGI images of earth and the stars, and you tell me that's nonsense and then give me a computer generated image?

Not spending, raking in billions of dollars. I doubt any of those artist renderings of planets cost more than $30 - $40 each.

Wrong again.
Gonverment space agencies and private companies have spent billions of dollars on shuttles(Columbia, Challenger, Discovery, and Atlantis), shuttle carrier aircraft, satelites, rockets, helium ballons, the ISS, landing facilities, and so one. There is no doubt on this.
Total Cost of NASA's Space Shuttle Program ammounts to almost $200 Billion alone.
https://www.space.com/11358-nasa-space- ... 1500199078

Yes sir, no doubt about this, I will try to remember that. But do you think that it would be presumptuous of me to ask NASA to spare some of that $200 billion for some actual photos of earth and Mars?
I know, I'm getting delusional again, right?

As always, it's about money and power.

LOL. Wait what? )
Q: People could not have substantial money and power if we all would believe it's flat ?

NASA has been budgeted from 1958 to 2011 amounts to $526.178 billion—an average of $9.928 billion per year. could buy a lot of new textbooks and pay the teachers better, besides the children would know the truth about where they live.

Q: Why would a specific form of the Earth prevent people for having substantial money and power?!!!
Your are not making any sense.

A Biblical Flat Earth proves a Creator, no need to spend $526.178 billion on CGI and artist rendered science fiction paintings of imaginary planets.
But taking God out of the picture for humanity, man becomes more lawless thinking rules no longer apply.

For a ride.

When they go in orbit they go for a ride too. This does not answer the question.
Q: Where do the shuttles go after launch?

I don't know, but from what we can see through telescopes and powerful zoom lens cameras, not through the dome that's for sure. They go off to somewhere on earth.

Most are paintings, artists rendering, just read the small print.

Can you show me how did you figure out that this picture is CGI:


Because I have done my homework and am 100% convinced that the earth is flat, and in that satellite painting, the earth is depicted as round. Much more round than the computer generated image you gave me above.

You mean like the evidence for gravity? What I say is obvious as the nose on our faces.

Positive claims require positive evidence.
Trying to shift the burden of proof only makes your case look weak.
So please provide some conclusive evidence to support your positive claims.

That the earth is flat? Where is the 8" drop per mile squared? Got a telescope, you will see for yourself there is no curve, unless you're going over and down a hill.
Some things you have to see for yourself, videos won't do.

I specifically shown you NASA supposed satellite photos of earth, and it clearly shows stars behind it. Please don't use pre-school to 2nd grade indoctrination on me, I am well beyond that now, thank God.

Q: What is so hard to understand?!!!

Stars can be seen with your eyes both from the moon and Earth only in daytime.
If you take a photo with longer exposure you would see stars in space. But if don't you won't see stars in space in the pictures.
A short exposure will catch the details on the surface but not give enough time to gather much (if any) light from the stars. A longer exposure might get the stars, but the entire surface would be one huge white splotch as it's overexposed.

C: Therefore you can have both pictures with stars in them or not depending on the exposure time.

How long of an exposure did it take NASA to get stars to look like artist rendered planets with stars in the background like these here?

https://www.google.com/search?q=nasa+pi ... 80&bih=620

What has the Hubble been doing up there? We want to see the actual photos, not the stuff they show us. We know how stars look like, so let's see them from the Hubble, or live-feed would be nice too?

I was talking about the actual weather-balloon ISS. Yes, we can enlarge the size by mathematics claiming it is much farther away. NASA employs some really good mathematicians to figure out what the aluminum foil ISS should look like to match the imaginary distance.

There is math behind these illusions too you know!

We can justify any illusion with math.

Wait what?!!!! What illusion. There is no illusion, just plain simple trigonometry.

Q: Do you understand trigonometry?



Here i have done the math myself using basic Trigonometry Formulas from Right Triangle:


https://academic.evergreen.edu/projects ... c/trig.htm

?? Can't load pic.

and you've seen this when?
Stand at the side of a freeway and I tell you those cars passing you by at 60mph are actually a mile away, now tell me what the speed of a car would be at my suggested distance?

Easy.
You can take two points of reference A and B. If you know the distance between point A and B and the time it took the car to go from A to B you can calculate the speed via the formula:

v = d/t (where d - distance, v - speed, t - time).

http://www.softschools.com/formulas/phy ... ormula/75/

"If you know the distance between point A and B and the time it took the car to go from A to B"

That's a big IF!
An airplane flying 1,500 feet over your head at 300mph will look faster than when flying at 35,000 feet. So if NASA lies about the height, our speed calculation will be according to NASA's lie. We will see what NASA want's us to see.
Like I said, we can use math to justify anything in the sky, especially in an imaginary 'universe".

Yes, the timing of the balloon launches with the many aluminum-foil ISS are critical, ...

Nasa can't know when a random observer wants to watch, observe the ISS. Therefore it can't time the return flyby after 90 min. Therefore if we have multiple random observation from random people show the ISS 90min return consitently can only mean the flyby is not some conspiracy orchestrated by Nasa.

Show me ONE consistent 90 minute flyby for one night, I will pick the location? After all, you have 1,500 satellites up there at any given time.

Here is actual footage of them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZZXhJJqZEA

I see, you want to debate the Pendulum that it proves the earth is moving. Have they considered tectonic-plate movements? How are us animals to evolve if we are not surfing on the water?

How about live feeds that we can all access of two pendulums, one by the equator traveling 1,000mph with the rotation of your globe, and the other at the North pole where the Earth spins 1mph.

Besides, how do they know what the Foucault pendulum supposed to do when stationary if the earth is always spinning?
People have done 24 hour gyroscope experiments close to the equator where the earth supposedly spins at 1,000mph and shown absolutely no movement.

Remember, even 500 years ago they put a globe in every science classroom, so there is no expense spared, including this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5JTb_7qv78&t=21s

There is absolutely no evidence of either curvature, us spinning and twirling through the vacuum of space, (which would make the pendulum do all kinds of crazy things ) all proof is against the sun being 92.96 million miles away, and so on. You are defending your belief, while I'm talking about what I have observed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5i_iDyUTCg&t=72s

You long ramblings are irrelevant just meant to muddle the waters and not bring any substantial contra-argument.

Q: What is so hard to understand?

If he earth were not rotating, the Pendulum wouldn’t precess, it would just swing through the same arc over and over, never tracing out any different path than the one it started on.

How would you know that? Who set up the Pendulum, and who witnessed the building of its foundation? NASA has $10 billion dollars a year riding on the earth rotating.

I asked;

Besides, how do they know what the Foucault pendulum supposed to do when stationary if the earth is always spinning?

People have done 24 hour gyroscope experiments close to the equator where the earth supposedly spins at 1,000mph and shown absolutely no movement.

Besides, you don't just spin, your earth twirls through space in elliptical twirling motion, have they considered that for the Pendulum, or just spin?

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 73 by Trump]

So why else do things get smaller with distance? Do you know trigonometry?

The resolution of an object decreases with distance giving the appearance that they are getting smaller. However with proper magnification you can increase the resolution.

Example:

To the naked eye Jupiter appears as a small dot of light. When magnification is applied via a telescope it appears much larger and we can make out the finer details.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 73 by Trump]

How about this, why is it that planes flying at 35,000 feet elevation see the horizon at eye level?

The horizon by definition is always at eye level. Now there might be a problem with your question if you state stare at the horizon at 1 ft sea level and 35000ft of sea level there is a significant difference.

I don't know if you have ever flown a plane but the distance you can see greatly increases...

[alexxcJRO]

I'm sorry, but besides insulting me, are you making fun of me too? I complained about NASA artist rendering and CGI images of earth and the stars, and you tell me that's nonsense and then give me a computer generated image?

You said this: “Besides Neil Degrassee said the earth is really pear shaped, now how could all those space agencies you listed missed that? Show me ONE pic of earth as pear-shaped?�
I pointed out that Neil Degrassee was in fact right and in congruence with the scientific consensus.
Earth is not a sphere. Earth is an oblate spheroid in a “pear kind of shape�.

“Yes sir, no doubt about this, I will try to remember that. But do you think that it would be presumptuous of me to ask NASA to spare some of that $200 billion for some actual photos of earth and Mars?
A Biblical Flat Earth proves a Creator, no need to spend $526.178 billion on CGI and artist rendered science fiction paintings of imaginary planets.
But taking God out of the picture for humanity, man becomes more lawless thinking rules no longer apply. “

Non-sequitur.

Q: Why would the form of the Earth prove a Creator?

I never hear of a Christian or other kind of a believer promoting this argument before.
The majority of the Christians and Christian churches believe in an earth being an oblate spheroid.
Even the most fundamentalists ones like the Young Earth Creationists believe the earth is not flat.
https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/ ... arth-flat/

“I don't know, but from what we can see through telescopes and powerful zoom lens cameras, not through the dome that's for sure.�

This is a positive claim.
Please provide evidence for this.

“Because I have done my homework and am 100% convinced that the earth is flat, and in that satellite painting, the earth is depicted as round. Much more round than the computer generated image you gave me above. “

So you don’t have any evidence for your positive claim.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Here is a debate forum. Claims require evidence.

Here see the forum rules:
“Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim. “
viewtopic.php?t=6

“How long of an exposure did it take NASA to get stars to look like artist rendered planets with stars in the background like these here? “

You keep moving the goalpost. This is a logical fallacy:

Moving the Goalposts
Description: Demanding from an opponent that he or she address more and more points after the initial counter-argument has been satisfied refusing to conceded or accept the opponent’s argument.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... _Goalposts

“?? Can't load pic�

You don’t have to load the pic. Zoom on the web page. Ctrl scrollbar.

Here again:

“An airplane flying 1,500 feet over your head at 300mph will look faster than when flying at 35,000 feet. So if NASA lies about the height, our speed calculation will be according to NASA's lie. We will see what NASA want's us to see.
Like I said, we can use math to justify anything in the sky, especially in an imaginary 'universe". “

You don’t need to know the distance from earth to the ISS. You can have two observers waiting for the pass of ISS in two points A(Hamilton) and B(Danbury).
They know the distance between them is 370 miles. The ISS took one minute to get from Hamilton to Danbury.
The speed of ISS can be calculated via v = d/t. We have the time and the distance between observers.(This is done without taking in consideration the earth is an oblate spheroid).

t=1min = 0.01666666 h.
d=370miles.
v = d / t = 370 / 0.01666666 = 22,200.00000888 miles/h;(much higher then the fastest plane : 5,679.1264 miles/h)

Here again:

“How would you know that? Who set up the Pendulum, and who witnessed the building of its foundation? NASA has $10 billion dollars a year riding on the earth rotating. “

You can do the experiment yourself. Build yourself a pendulum.

“People have done 24 hour gyroscope experiments close to the equator where the earth supposedly spins at 1,000mph and shown absolutely no movement.�

The Foucault pendulum does not precess at the equator.

Here a light read:
“At the north pole the apparent rotation would be a full circle of 360 degrees each 24-hour day, or about 15 degrees per hour. This case is fairly simple, because here the earth and the pendulum are not exerting much influence on each other. As you move off the north pole down to a more southerly point like Washington, for example, the earth not only rotates under the pendulum, but it carries Washington, the building, and the pendulum, in a great circle about its axis. That is, the motion of the earth is now mixed in a complicated way with the motion of the pendulum. As you can prove if you watch the pendulum for a while, the effect of this is to slow down the apparent rotation of the swing. Instead of seeming to rotate 15 degrees (about 1/24 of a full circle) in one hour, it only changes by about 9 degrees (about 1/40 of a full circle). The further south you go, the slower the apparent rotation gets, and at the equator there is no rotation at all. Below the equator the apparent rotation begins again, but in the opposite direction.�
https://www.si.edu/Encyclopedia_SI/nmah/pendulum.htm

[McCulloch]

Earth is not a sphere. Earth is an oblate spheroid in a “pear kind of shape�.

The equatorial radius or the earth is 6378.1 km. The polar radius is 6356.8 km. If the earth was a perfect sphere, these distances would identical. As it is, the earth is slightly flattened at the pole and bulges out at the equator. But the difference is a mere 21.3 km (less than 14 miles). To put that into perspective, imagine that you have a basketball (75cm or 30in) and flatten the pole by 2.5mm or 1/8 in. It would still look spherical. The earth does not look pear shaped because it's variance from spherical is only 1/3%.