What purpose would a system of government have in heaven?

[Justin108]

What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient? Why would an omnipotent God need to delegate in order to effectively rule? Can you perhaps give a few examples of what these rulers would be tasked to do? What purpose would rulers have in a paradise society? There is no economy to take care of, no resource distribution, no justice system as all members at this point will be free of sin... what is left for the rulers to do?

[Benoni]

My concern is not so much that humans eat animals, but that animals are eaten at all even if by other animals. Will a paradise still include animals suffering and dying?

The bible does not give every detail about life under the new administration (Kingdom government), but it gives enough for readers to built a picture of a peaceful existence in harmony with the animals and each other.

QUESTION: Will there be peace between animals? Will animals eat other animals?

The bible paints a picture of animals peacefully co-existing.

Where?

All death will be destroyed. In Adam all die in Christ all will be made alive.

I take the Garden as literal; but there is always a deeper hidden message in Gods Word. Animals like all creation were lowered when Adam sinned. It was Adams duty to name the animals even before God lowered him to a dust man, a soul man. Adam had dominion over all the animals and he named them, it appears he did not eat them if you look at verse 29. Adam had dominion over even the fish of the sea; and the fowl of the air; what could this mean; wow?????
Gen 1: 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat

So God said it was good after each day.

BUT they all creation fell when Adam fell including all the animals and fish and fowl; why???? Let Gods Word answer this awesome question. Romans 8:20 (NLT) Against its will, all creation was subjected to Gods curse. But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join Gods children in glorious freedom from death and decay.

NASB) 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

(NLV) 20 Everything that has been made in the world is weak. It is not that the world wanted it to be that way. God allowed it to be that way. Yet there is hope. 21 Everything that has been made in the world will be set free from the power that can destroy. These will become free just as the children of God become free.

MSG) 8-21 That's why I don't think there's any comparison between the present hard times and the coming good times. The created world itself can hardly wait for what's coming next. Everything in creation is being more or less held back. God reins it in until both creation and all the creatures are ready and can be released at the same moment into the glorious times ahead. Meanwhile, the joyful anticipation deepens.


(NLV) 20 Everything that has been made in the world is weak. It is not that the world wanted it to be that way. God allowed it to be that way. Yet there is hope. 21 Everything that has been made in the world will be set free from the power that can destroy. These will become free just as the children of God become free.


(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned 21 to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

[Justin108]

That said there is nothing in scriipture to indicate God created animals to live forever. So while some insects live a few short days and some animals live for many decades, they were all destined sooner or later to die. While there is no reason to believe that God intended animals to suffer horrible pain during this cycle and one can speculate many of the illnesses and diseases animals get today is the result of the degredation of their environment, but this natural cycle of life and death for animals was evidently part of their design.

So God deliberately designed life to involve some animals killing other animals in order to survive? Not only do these animals die, but they die painfully. Having a lion sink his teeth into your neck would not be a very painless way to go.

The bible indicates that Jehovah God cares about animals and condemns the causing of needless suffering (compare Matthew 10:29)

His whole design is needless suffering. God never needed to design animals to painfully kill each other in order to survive, so for God to suddenly be against animal suffering despite the fact that he designed nature to be a cycle of kill-or-die-starving makes absolutely no sense.

Can paradise be considered "perfect" if death exists?

You keep answering questions I never asked. I never asked this. This is not about the death of animals, it's about the suffering of animals.

For me, and I think all Jehovah's Witnesses, the important thing is that God has assured that "every living thing" will be able to live a satisfying life, and since animals are living feeling creatures of God, that would include them (Psalms 145:16)

In order for malaria parasites to live a satisfying life, someone needs to suffer from malaria. So, logically, someone is going to end up unsatisfied.

[JehovahsWitness]

So God deliberately designed life to involve some animals killing other animals in order to survive?

QUESTION: Will animals eat each other?

Although the bible does not specifically answer this question we again have scriptures that cast some light on the subject...

ISAIAH 6:7
The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together.The lion will eat straw like the bull.

[Justin108]

So God deliberately designed life to involve some animals killing other animals in order to survive?

QUESTION: Will animals eat each other?

Although the bible does not specifically answer this question we again have scriptures that cast some light on the subject...

ISAIAH 6:7
The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together.The lion will eat straw like the bull.

For carnivores to suddenly adapt to a herbivore diet, they will need to undergo drastic changes, yet in post 8 you claimed the earth will be the same. I expected the animals to be the same as well, but apparently that's not the case.

In post 15, you said that there is enough resources on earth to support man. Assuming for argument sake that the current resources, if distributed correctly, is enough for all humanity. If humans stopped eating animals and animals stopped eating animals, then all life will rely on vegetation in order to survive. Assuming animals still reproduce, if carnivores stopped killing other animals, these animals would reproduce far too rapidly. An ecosystem void of predators cannot function as the herbivores will reproduce far too rapidly for the vegetation to sustain them. Without culling, this will inevitable result in overpopulation.

How do you suppose there will be enough resources on earth when
- all humans start relying solely on a vegetarian diet?
- all animals start relying solely on a vegetarian diet?
- animals start reproducing at a greater rate than they die, resulting in overpopulation?

Another problem that I can't believe I only just notice is the matter of mass resurrection. In post 8, you mentioned welcoming back dead loved ones. Later you mentioned that no one will die from age or disease, effectively becoming immortal. How many people do you think will live on earth after everyone has come back to life? I realize that not everyone will come back, but of those who do... how many do you suppose will end up living on earth? Then there's the matter of reproduction. Will people still reproduce in paradise? Or will everyone suddenly become sterile after Armageddon?

So death will be a thing of the past, the dead will come back to life, all animals will suddenly become herbivores, they will continue to reproduce without any natural predators to cull them, and you think that earth's vegetation will be able to sustain all this? This earth?

[JehovahsWitness]

For carnivores to suddenly adapt to a herbivore diet, they will need to undergo drastic changes, yet in post 8 you claimed the earth will be the same. I expected the animals to be the same as well, but apparently that's not the case.

Good then you have understood correctly. The EARTH will be "the same" in that it will be exactly the same planet we are currently living on BUT ... there will be changes what happens on it, this will evidently be one of them. You can take any need their might be to miraculous regulate the ecosystem to be another.

JW






Jehovah's Witnesses believe that eternal life for the majority of mankind will not be in heaven but right here on this our physical planet earth. Jesus said that the "meek shall inherit the earth" and we believe that it is this planet that is our collective destiny. Life on earth will be vastly improved (different in a good way).


source: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... the-earth/

[JehovahsWitness]

how many do you suppose will end up living on earth? Then there's the matter of reproduction. Will people still reproduce in paradise?

Will paradise not eventually become overpopulated?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 237#832237

How long will it take to "fill the earth"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 240#832240

Do we need to worry God cannot handle the potential problem of over population? (2timothy316)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 273#832273

[onewithhim]

What purpose would a system of government have when God is both omnipotent and omniscient?

The purpose of the government, as with all governments, is to establish and enforce an administeration to maintain order in a new world system. While God is both omnipotent and omnicient by nature, this doesn't stop him choosing to delegate if that be his pleasure.

So you can't give me an actual rational reason other than "because God wants to"? In case this was not obvious from my OP, I want to know why God would want to?

JW just told you why.

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[onewithhim]

Okay, well let me put it clearer ...

God lives in heaven. God (using Jesus and 144,000 others) will destroy all the governments that are currently ruling.

The day after this event nothing has changed except there is a new (world) government.

- the trees are all the same; the mountains are the same, the animals are the same...
- I am the same (I don't start glowing and hovering above the ground)

Are you exactly the same? Are you still mortal?

Mortal refers to "a living human being... subjet to death." I just said, I am still the same, so yes I will still be a flesh and blood human that needs to eat to stay alive. Everybody else will also be human and if they decide to jump of a high building they will probably die.

I see you snipped out the part of me asking if you still visibly age over time.

Probably because it has been stated many times on these threads, and is clearly evident in the videos that JW has provided, that no we will not age past the year, whatever that is, of complete maturity, probably around 30. Old people will get younger (Job 33:25). It will be as God planned it when He created Adam and Eve.

[onewithhim]

I see you snipped out the part of me asking if you still visibly age over time.

Thanks to the powers given them, these rulers will guide mankind back to perfection, perfect health. Death as a result of old age [...] will eventually be a things of the past (see Rev 21:3, 4)

The bible promises

JOB 33:25
Let his flesh become fresher than in youth,
Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor - NASV

So we can expect at some point the ravages of old age to eventually stop and even go into reversee; so that old people will regain their youthful appearance. As mankind reaches physical perfection children will grow normally to reach a healthy, happy adulthood but once at physical maturity nobody on earth will visibly age (as in experiencing the ravages of old age) ever again.

Wow! Beautiful!

I was just thinking---mankind has longed for eternal youth, and some searched for "the Fountain of Youth" (Ponce de Leon, in Florida). Mankind has yearned for "Shangri-la." Now we are telling everyone on earth about a REAL "fountain of youth," and a REAL "Shangri-la," and no one seems to want it! I wonder why that is.

[onewithhim]

After the millenium, all humans will have attained perfection,

Please explain how humans would be considered perfect when they still have the need to eat in order to survive. Also, please address my earlier question regarding the means of which resources are gathered. Do we still need to work in the field to grow vegetables and do we still need to kill animals to get meat? How can you consider paradise perfect when we still need to kill innocent animals in order to survive?

That is the way God created human beings. Adam was perfect, and he had to eat. This will be no problem because we will always have plenty to eat.

That is one reason why we have governments---to arrange for the implementation of the gathering and distributing of food. Probably most of us will have our own gardens. It takes work, but so what? We won't ever be sick or collapse from over-work, because we will thoroughly enjoy what work we do, and we will have perfect health.

We feel that we will not kill animals for food any longer. It was only after the Flood that mankind was permitted to kill animals for food. If we are going to live in peace with the animals (Isaiah 11:6-9), surely we won't be killing them.


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