A question that has haunted me all my life

[Dave Skummie]

How is it that every ancient isolated culture invented everything from languages to gods. If this is true, Then only two possible explanations can come from this that I can see. 1. If there is a real god then I'd say this god created a method to communicate. That would make all gods true and worshiping any would take you to the same spot at the end. 2. The simple psychology of ruling in man has created a need to worship something greater. This would mean all gods were made up by the psychological design of the human brain. If anyone has number 3. I'd be very interested. Thank you for your time. Dave

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 3 by benchwarmer]

Thank you benchwarmer for your reply. I hope your name doesn't insinuate that you didn't get to play in the game.

You know, you're the first person to ask why I chose that name. It has a few meanings which have fit my life over the years, thus I thought it was apt. As a kid I was generally picked close to last or last for anything that involved sports. Thus, if I wasn't warming a bench, I was idly standing somewhere which is practically the same thing. As a former Catholic, I warmed many a pew. As the years went by and the further I dug into the religion, I spent more time just warming the pew than actually being involved in what I increasingly saw as pointless. Now I warm my chair in front of the computer and debate/discuss issues with all of you!

I just have a problem with the simple concept that thousands of gods have been created throughout time and that most of them say I am the real one and the others are faults and how this came to play. There has to be an answer

Well, some religions actually have multiple gods within them to deal with various things. There would be no "One true god" in those ones. Anyway, if you are trying to promote your own religion, of course you are going to find fault with all the others. Otherwise, you would simply follow one of the existing ones. Nobody likes to admit they are wrong, so the easiest way to do that in religion is simply have your god declare it is the 'right one' and call the rest lies/lesser/etc. It's the adult version of "My dad is bigger than your dad!"

[JP Cusick]

Thank you JP Cusick for your reply. I think you have similar thoughts.

You are welcome.

I often wonder if every person has similar thoughts, and that maybe some other aspect separates each person.

In psychology we know the emotions of people, we know how every person thinks and feels, and we really can analyze people very accurately, and it is amazing how deeply we can know a person just from a small amount of basic information.

Add the religious perspective to psychology and that is as close to reading peoples' minds (and reading their heart) as we ever need to go.

You talk about a creator. Let me just start by saying I'm not a very intelligent person and I don't have that much schooling behind me.

In many ways an education in this evil world makes a person more lost and more hopeless.

What a person really needs is strong honesty along with sincerity and the constant motivation to keep seeking the truth.

But it would seem to me if you have a creator that means you have a beginning and that concept to me is very illogical. As we know today that matter cannot be created or destroyed and our basic analogy is that it will be here in some form forever. So the word eternal is it possible for something to go on for ever and to have it not been going on forever. I think if something is eternal in one direction it has to be eternal in the other direction as well

Physical matter is not the same as life, so matter can change into energy and change back into matter which can make it eternal, but life as we know it has a beginning and has an end - so thereby I see a Creator.

It is fine to accept that God will bring us back to life and I accept that, but I do not take the step that me and my life was ever eternal, and it is only a hope or faith that my life may become eternal by the grace of God.

In Hinduism they say the spirit is eternal - and that is cool by me - but that spirit is not me.

If I were resurrected and did not remember my identity and my life from here and now - then that resurrection would not be me.

[dio9]

[Replying to Dave Skummie]

that's the million dollar question isn't it. But even If God doesn't exist , I believe we have a need to make one. So believing in a supreme being is part of the human nature. Our atheist friends have to make a serious intellectualized effort to repress this noted instinct toward worship. That everybody does it tips the scales in favor of existence for me .

[dio9]

[Replying to post 19 by Justin108]

some say God likes to play with us, like playing a game of hide and seek .

[Clownboat]

I like you point out different peoples approach what they perceive as God from their different perspectives. That we universally perceive and feel a need to worship is intriguing . The universality of it that is found anthropologically speaking even in the separate unrelated parts of the world. Implies there is something we are engineered to relate to as part of our human experience. In short we are created or have evolved to perceive believe and have a need to worship the same thing in our different ways.

What you say does not ring true. Nice claim to make though, apart from your projecting your need to believe and worship on to others.

Why, for example, is belief in invisible, supernatural agents - such as ghosts, angels, dead ancestors, and gods - so widespread?

Barrett suggests we have evolved to be overly sensitive to agency. We evolved in an environment containing many agents - family members, friends, rivals, predators, prey, and so on. Spotting and understanding other agents helps us survive and reproduce. So we evolved to be sensitive to them - oversensitive in fact. Hear a rustle in the bushes behind you and you instinctively spin round, looking for an agent. Most times, there's no one there - just the wind in the leaves. But, in the environment in which we evolved, on those few occasions when there was an agent present, detecting it might well save your life. Far better to avoid several imaginary predators than be eaten by a real one. Thus evolution will select for an inheritable tendency to not just detect - but over detect - agency.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/be ... ble-beings

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 2 by Justin108]

Justin thank you for your reply. I understand what you're saying my only problem is does every God say do not murder do not rape do not steal and do not worship other gods.

Humans do not make these claims about all the available god concepts.
However, there are some god concepts that order genocide and provide laws for owning other humans. Disgusting no?

These seemed to be the fundamentals of all gods.

It's not though. See the Egyptian gods for hundreds of examples.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 3 by benchwarmer]

Thank you benchwarmer for your reply. I hope your name doesn't insinuate that you didn't get to play in the game. You bring up a great point. I wonder if anyone has done any studies on similarities in language. If what you're saying is true there would seem to be some remnants from the previous language in every languages. I've never studied it so I couldn't say one way or the other but the general concept is very interesting. I fully agree with what you're saying about the growth of technology and how it is influenced religious beliefs. I just have a problem with the simple concept that thousands of gods have been created throughout time and that most of them say I am the real one and the others are faults and how this came to play. There has to be an answer

Consider this quote:
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."

There is your possible answer. The rulers found that making claims on behalf of the gods was useful for controlling the masses, even up to the point of committing genocide. What a powerful tool.

Therefore, it would behoove rulers to make claims about how their favorite god or gods are the only true ones. Kill the infidels!

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Dave Skummie]

that's the million dollar question isn't it. But even If God doesn't exist , I believe we have a need to make one. So believing in a supreme being is part of the human nature. Our atheist friends have to make a serious intellectualized effort to repress this noted instinct toward worship. That everybody does it tips the scales in favor of existence for me .

Perhaps you would reply about your thoughts after having read the article from Psychology today about how humans have evolved to assign agency. This addresses your claim above where you say: "That everybody does it tips the scales in favor of existence for me".

[bluethread]

The approach that HaTorah takes is that there is a deity and we were created to interact with such a deity. However, we developed the ability to imagine other deities and constructed a world view based primarily on the concept of multiple conflicting forces, or deities, held together in an endless cycle by a unifying force or deity. The first three chapters of the Scriptures are a counter to this view, establishing linear time and a deity that has authority over a separate material universe, that follows basic principles.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 25 by Clownboat]

its wide spread probably because its true. Your opinion my friend is the minority position. Considering that of the rest of the human race.
excuse me your reference is a Barrett? never heard of him. you comparing him to Buddha Lao Tzu Jesus and Krishna?