When science does not work

[Rufus21]

I follow science where one should follow science and I follow religion/revelation where science does not work.

Can someone give an example of a situation where science doesn't work?

I've heard people say that science cannot handle situations outside the natural world, but there is no indication that religion can either. In fact, neither can offer any evidence that a supernatural realm exists in the first place. So what are some situations where science does not work but religion does?

[bluethread]

I follow science where one should follow science and I follow religion/revelation where science does not work.

Can someone give an example of a situation where science doesn't work?

So far the only response has been the meaning of life, which many people have different opinions on and several people don't believe it even exists.

Are there any better examples, or is the original quote not accurate?

Now that the traffic has cleared, science does not work where one can not identify all of the relevant factors and do verification in a controlled environment. Combined with other things, like reason and presumed consistency over time, on can make conclusions about such things. For example, science alone does not work in substantiating past or predicting future events. It isn't designed for that. It is designed for testing things as they are, so that such information can be used by other disciplines to substantiate past and/or predict future events.

[Rufus21]

It is designed for testing things as they are, so that such information can be used by other disciplines to substantiate past and/or predict future events.

What are the other disciplines?

...science does not work where one can not identify all of the relevant factors and do verification in a controlled environment.

Is there evidence that religion does? Are there examples of any religion reliably finding knowledge that science is not equipped to handle?

The Meaning of Life was one suggestion, but looking at the relevant thread:

viewtopic.php?t=33357

We see that most theists come to the conclusion that the meaning of life is "love", or the meaning of life is to separate the pre-chosen righteous people from the sinners. Do those responses seem more accurate than the non-theistic suggestions? We know that science far surpasses religion when describing the past, understanding the present and predicting the future, but in what areas does religion come out on top?

[bluethread]

It is designed for testing things as they are, so that such information can be used by other disciplines to substantiate past and/or predict future events.

What are the other disciplines?

History, philosophy, mathematics, anthropology, etc.

...science does not work where one can not identify all of the relevant factors and do verification in a controlled environment.

Is there evidence that religion does? Are there examples of any religion reliably finding knowledge that science is not equipped to handle?

That was not the question. You were just asking where science doesn't work. Theistic philosophy is not necessarily at odds with science. It is just one of the many philosophies that can use scientific information to confirm or reject certain theories.

The Meaning of Life was one suggestion, but looking at the relevant thread:

viewtopic.php?t=33357

We see that most theists come to the conclusion that the meaning of life is "love", or the meaning of life is to separate the pre-chosen righteous people from the sinners. Do those responses seem more accurate than the non-theistic suggestions? We know that science far surpasses religion when describing the past, understanding the present and predicting the future, but in what areas does religion come out on top?

I thought you created that thread so that it would not muddy the waters on this thread. I guess that only applies to others muddying the waters. As I said, theistic philosophy is not necessarily at odds with science. Also, as I stated, science does not describe the past or predict the future. It only provides data regarding the present. That data is then compared to historical records of past scientific data and, depending on the premises of the particular disciple one is using, descriptions of the past and predictions regarding the future are made.

[Rufus21]

History, philosophy, mathematics, anthropology, etc.

Social sciences arent science?

That was not the question. You were just asking where science doesn't work.

From the original post:

So what are some situations where science does not work but religion does?

Post #5:

So can religion be used to fill in any of these areas where science stumbles?

Post #24:

does anyone have any examples of situations where science doesn't work? Examples of religion finding answers where science isn't applicable?

I've often heard people claim that their religion offers answers that science cannot, and that science is not capable of handling certain subjects as well as religion can. I am simply asking for evidence of these claims.

I thought you created that thread so that it would not muddy the waters on this thread. I guess that only applies to others muddying the waters.

Whether or not life has a specific meaning is tangential. I only mentioned it here because someone claimed it was a topic that science could not answer but religion could. I remain unconvinced.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 2 by Willum]

In my experience science "doesn't work," all the time.
Chemical equations may fail when impurities are present.
Physics may fail to take into account dynamic or friction from lubrication

I don't think this was addressed earlier. So I'll add my 2 cents. Impurities in a chemical reaction doesn't mean the science failed, rather the one leveraging the science behind the equation failed to account for the impurity. Physics doesn't fail to account for something the user is the one failing to account for it.

There might be technological limitations we have not overcome it doesn't mean science has failed in this regard.

I think where science fails is in absolutism. Science offers a best possible answer currently available. It doesn't offer an absolute answer. This bother religionists as they don't deal well with uncertainty hence the need for any system that tells them an absolute answer regardless of whether it's right or wrong.

[fredonly]

Can someone give an example of a situation where science doesn't work?

Science cannot identify the fundamental ontological basis of reality. Any "theory of everything" that is developed can never prove that it is the bottom layer.

[Rufus21]

Science cannot identify the fundamental ontological basis of reality. Any "theory of everything" that is developed can never prove that it is the bottom layer.

That's an interesting example. Since reality is a concept and not an actual "thing" it can be tricky to approach it with the scientific method. It would also be difficult to discover things that are not "real" or exist outside of reality.

Is there any evidence that religion can aid us in this pursuit? Can any scripture or revelation provide a deeper understanding of the basis of reality and antireality?

Honestly, I'm very surprised that more theists have not joined the conversation. It seems like the whole purpose of religion is to show us things that cannot be seen without it - to impart divine knowledge and show us a world beyond what science is capable of testing. Religion gives us the concepts of afterlife, an immortal soul, personal salvation, supernatural beings, miraculous powers, objective morality, an invisible power that guides our lives and gives us purpose. Are there really no valid examples of a truth beyond science that so many people claim to have?

[paarsurrey1]

When science does not work

Sorry, I didn't notice this thread earlier. Friend Rufus21 has brought my attention to this thread vide his Post 101: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 am in the thread :"Scientific search for what is God." Forum:Debating Christianity and Religion Forum Index -> Science and Religion:
viewtopic.php?p=890658#890658

I am neither against science nor against religion. I believe both are essential for human development and progress.
Science with the grace of One-True-God has done marvelous things in its domain since the discovery of "Scientific Method" which I understand changes with the discipline of science and the problem/issue in hand due to the nature of the discipline it is being applied to. To start with it was applied in "Physics" properly and formally. Its father/mother is Mathematics and it Grandfather/mother is Philosophy where it is not applied altogether, or not to much extent. Right, please?
Regards

[fredonly]

Science cannot identify the fundamental ontological basis of reality. Any "theory of everything" that is developed can never prove that it is the bottom layer.

That's an interesting example. Since reality is a concept and not an actual "thing" it can be tricky to approach it with the scientific method. It would also be difficult to discover things that are not "real" or exist outside of reality.

Scientific investigation could potentially peal back the layers of the onion, from atoms to the standard model of particle physics, to quantum fields, to strings... but there can be no point in which science could definitively state "we have found the fundamental stuff of which everything is made. (This is what I was referring to).

Is there any evidence that religion can aid us in this pursuit? Can any scripture or revelation provide a deeper understanding of the basis of reality and antireality?

Not a chance. Religion makes a claim as to the fundamental (i.e. a "god") but no backward investigation can get us there even if God exists. This would entail figuring out exactly what God created - where did he intervene. He COULD have created strings, or he COULD have created quantum fields, or atoms, or he could have built a world of angelic beings.

Honestly, I'm very surprised that more theists have not joined the conversation.

I'm not. They believe the final answer has been handed to them. If anything, they appeal to arguments from ignorance.

[bluethread]

History, philosophy, mathematics, anthropology, etc.

Social sciences arent science?

Correct, they use science, among other things, to make assumptions regarding the past and predictions about the future.

That was not the question. You were just asking where science doesn't work.

From the original post:

So what are some situations where science does not work but religion does?

Post #5:

So can religion be used to fill in any of these areas where science stumbles?

Post #24:

does anyone have any examples of situations where science doesn't work? Examples of religion finding answers where science isn't applicable?

I've often heard people claim that their religion offers answers that science cannot, and that science is not capable of handling certain subjects as well as religion can. I
am simply asking for evidence of these claims.

I stand corrected on the scope of the thread. I believe such people are pitting a methodology against a philosophy, which is not appropriate. I say this because I presume you mean theistic philosophy, when you use the term "religion". However, I view religion is those practices that follow from a philosophy, not the philosophy itself.

I thought you created that thread so that it would not muddy the waters on this thread. I guess that only applies to others muddying the waters.

Whether or not life has a specific meaning is tangential. I only mentioned it here because someone claimed it was a topic that science could not answer but religion could. I remain unconvinced.[/quote]

Well, it is not just the meaning of life, but many philosophical questions, specifically regarding the past and the future, can not be answered by science alone.