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So, where do you stand as to whether it is present, future, or has both a present and a future aspect?Luke 16:
6 The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone is being zealously urged into it.
Emphasis MINEshowme wrote:No one goes to "heaven".
JOHN 3:13
no man has ascended into heaven but the one who descended from heaven, the Son of man.
JOHN 16:28
I came as the Father's representative and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.
JOHN 20:17
I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.
EPHESIANS 2:6
Moreover, he raised us up together and seated us together in the heavenly places in union with Christ Jesus
PHILIPIANS 3:20
But our citizenship exists in the heavens, and we are eagerly waiting for a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our humble body to be like his glorious body
REVELATION 14: 1, 3
I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount [...] Zion, and with him 144,000 who have been bought from the earth
That's not what we read in the Bible. Jesus repeatedly referred to his Father who is IN heaven, and that he would go back and be with Him there. He also told his disciples that they would be WITH him in heaven, ruling as kings.showme wrote:No one goes to "heaven". The "kingdom of heaven" is "at hand" (Matthew 3:2), in the here and now.JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 421 by showme]
I'm glad for you. Now would you care to explain what you mean by the following since your paragraph on the Coucil of Nicea and the Roman Catholic church does NOT do so.
- What exactly do you believe the mark of the beast and why do you say Jehovah's Witnesses have it?showme wrote: Plus the JW have the mark of the beast, which precludes ruling with "Christ" (Revelation 20:4).
- Does your statement mean that no Jehovah's Witness can go to heaven?
I find it very sad that in the 21st century people can take a literal interpretation of this stuff involving "kings". Will they drink tea and eat fresh salmon caught on Mars? The apostle fishermen will stop fishing and rule on Aristotle, via a brain transplant.onewithhim wrote:
The disciples would rule with him: "[you will] eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge." (Luke 22:30)
"They will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years." (Revelation 20:6)
What, as you see it, is "false religion" in this context?Sad to say, but JWs are the only religious organization of people who DON'T have the mark of the beast, though I'm sure there are some individuals who refuse to be marked by it as well. (But you don't understand what the mark of the beast is; it would be good to inform yourself about that.) All we can do is warn people about Armageddon and Satan's schemes. It's up to you to accept the truth and "get out of her".....get out of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion.
"Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4, KJV)
What then is Revelation?Revelation is no revelation at all, and it is ludicrous to attach a meaning and advertise this as the true interpretation. What possible meaning does an arbitrary period of 1000 years have? It is disappointing to read this.
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Sad to say, but JWs are the only religious organization of people who DON'T have the mark of the beast, though I'm sure there are some individuals who refuse to be marked by it as well. (But you don't understand what the mark of the beast is; it would be good to inform yourself about that.) All we can do is warn people about Armageddon and Satan's schemes. It's up to you to accept the truth and "get out of her".....get out of Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion.
"Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4, KJV)
Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 431 by marco]
What then is Revelation?Revelation is no revelation at all, and it is ludicrous to attach a meaning and advertise this as the true interpretation. What possible meaning does an arbitrary period of 1000 years have? It is disappointing to read this.
A meaningless book of nonsense?
So did you.showme wrote:
You have failed to note what the "mark of the beast" is, and who are the two horns like a lamb?
JehovahsWitness wrote:
- What exactly do you believe the mark of the beast and why do you say Jehovah's Witnesses have it?
- Does your statement mean that no Jehovah's Witness can go to heaven?
That might reveal more about the priest and Martin Luther, than the book itself. Just because the book was not understood by them, just because the content was not revealed to them, it must therefore be nonsense or written by a drunk?marco wrote:Checkpoint wrote: [Replying to post 431 by marco]
What then is Revelation?Revelation is no revelation at all, and it is ludicrous to attach a meaning and advertise this as the true interpretation. What possible meaning does an arbitrary period of 1000 years have? It is disappointing to read this.
A meaningless book of nonsense?
A friend who was a priest described it as being written by a drunk. Obviously it is not meaningless but meanings are multiform. It is commonly used to indicate the Pope is the Antichrist and arcane arithmetical calculations arrive at Nero being the Beast. I am in rare agreement with Martin Luther who considered the book nonsense.
It is the book of Revelation. It must be revealed. We cannot interpret it ourselves and expect to be correct.
But you are correct that people and religions put forth a great many personal interpretations (often claiming that these are from the holy spirit).
I tried to interpret it, but on my own, how would I have ever known that the conclusions I came to were correct? (not to mention that Revelation is filled with symbolism and I have always been terrible at understanding and interpreting symbolism... always hated poetry in high school for that reason. I could never figure out what anyone was talking about!) So I stopped trying to interpret (though kept reading) and I just waited for my Lord to explain/reveal/open to me what things meant. Those things He has revealed to me I can know are true; and those things not yet revealed... I can wait.
That might depend upon the context and conversation and audience, perhaps.In any event it would be useless to use a quote from it to illustrate a truth, since there would be umpteen interpretations for the quote.
Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Perhaps you read the wrong poetry. It has much to teach us. It can be done beautifully as in the KJV of David's lament for Jonathan but read the NIV and beauty has vanished and not just from Gath.tam wrote:
I have always been terrible at understanding and interpreting symbolism... always hated poetry in high school for that reason. I could never figure out what anyone was talking about!)
