The Kingdom of Heaven

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:52 pm

Does (or will) the Kingdom of Heaven transcend the walls (metaphorical) of the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Will those outside of the Watch Tower organization be part of the Kingdom? Will they inherit "eternal life in Paradise on Earth"?

Why or why not?

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:44 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: Jehovah is not God's personal name.

Look up Hebrew names of God. There are a few.... Etc...

So God has a few names but JEHOVAH is NOT one of them, does that about sum up the totality of your research on the subject?
No, not my point at all. My point was only that, no one knows His true name.
So God has "a few" names but nobody knows his true name, one thing we know for CERTAIN though is whatever it is it is not YHWH (JEHOVAH) Does this better summarize your point?

Do you now what those squiggely letters are in the picture below?

It could be Bob, asfaik. But, Jehovah is an english transliteration, ..
An English transliteration of what?

brianbbs67 wrote:
Someone, probably knows His real name...
Yes that would be me. I cannot tell you for certain how it was originally pronounced but I can certainly tell you what it is. How to write it in Hebrewb and how it is commonly pronounced in English.

JW

An English transliteration of the Tetragrammaton. The hidden name. Those squiggly lines are hebrew, but you know I know that, so why ask? Also why do you trust those letters to be correct? It could be code. If you wanted to hide a name, why make it easy to find it again?

I just wouldn't bet "the farm" your belief is correct. God seems to like renaming us as we serve Him. He seems to rename Himself, also, throughout history. Same guy, different name, by His works.

This arguement we are having is beside the point. We both know there is God. You believe His only name is Jehovah, even when history and the OT show otherwise. But, none of that really matters, as we both have God.

At this point, I just agree to disagree, because further arguement is useless. You are locked into your doctrine and refuse to look beyond it. That is short sighted and unnatural, as we are prone to question and explore.

Further , it matters not, what we call Him(with reason, here). As long as we recognize He is God.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:59 am

brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:

An English transliteration of the Tetragrammaton. The hidden name. [...] If you wanted to hide a name, why make it easy to find it again?

The only one that wants to "hide" the name of God would be Satan. The bible NEVER says the Divine name should be "hidden" and its obviously not hidden because I posted a picture of it right there. The expression "the hidden name of God" is nowhere to be found in scriipture nor is there any command to refrain from pronouncing it.

QUESTION: Does the bible indicate God wants his name "hidden"?

EXODUS 33:14
[This] is what you are to say to the Israelites, JEHOVAH [""] [...] This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation."

PSALMS 83:18
May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

PSALMS 22:22
I will declare your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will praise you.

PSALMS 86:12
I will glorify your name to time indefinite.

MATTHEW 6:9
"Therefore, you should pray like this: Our Father in heaven, YOUR NAME be honored as holy." JESUS CHRIST

JOHN 17:26
and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them." - JESUS CHRIST (NASB)

CONCLUSION: The Divine Name of God appears over 7,000 times in the original scriptures, more times than any other name in scripture including that of Jesus. Although modern Enlish translators have taken to removing it from their translations, it can still be found in many in Psalms 83:18 (see below). Obviously then, the name was not intended to be hidden, indeed scriptures indicate God intends his name to be "declared" and "honored" and "known" by those that love Him.

click on the picture to enlarge

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:39 pm

[Replying to post 72 by JehovahsWitness]

Of course God did not intend His name to be hidden. Ancient Hebrews did that. Out of fear of breaking the commandment. So, adonai vowels were inserted. The letter J did not exist until medieval times. This was when Jehovah transliteration was invented by the Catholic church. Read this short article, please. I am not Catholic but this little piece sums it up nicely.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/is-gods-nam ... or-jehovah

William · Post by **William** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:44 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 72 by JehovahsWitness]

Of course God did not intend His name to be hidden. Ancient Hebrews did that. Out of fear of breaking the commandment. So, adonai vowels were inserted. The letter J did not exist until medieval times. This was when Jehovah transliteration was invented by the Catholic church. Read this short article, please. I am not Catholic but this little piece sums it up nicely.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/is-gods-nam ... or-jehovah

It is almost as if...the name of a GOD is more important than the GOD.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:03 am

William wrote:

It is almost as if...the name of a GOD is more important than the GOD.

The name of is as important as God. Don't put the title god above the name. Anything can be viewed as a god but there is only one Jehovah God. Jesus said to prey for that name to be sanctified. What you are trying to do to it? Make people forget it? Degrade it? Make it meaningless? Dishonor it? Was Jesus a fool when he said, "So pray this way: Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored". - Matthew 6:9

William · Post by **William** » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:48 pm

[Replying to post 75 by 2timothy316]

The name of is as important as God.

Is your name as important as who you are?

Don't put the title god above the name.

Who did that?

The title GOD simply represents an idea of a particular types of beings so when names are associated with that title, one can distinguish between the different ideas of GOD. The biblical ideas of GOD appear to have many names and titles attached to [him/them] (as well as gender!)

Anything can be viewed as a god but there is only one Jehovah God.

True that. That is what a title represents right?

However, it is not the name of any GOD, but rather an anglicized version of a title given to a particular idea of GOD. The anglicized version is not a name, but a title...like the word GOD is a title.

Jesus said to prey for that name to be sanctified.

What name? Can you quote?

What you are trying to do to it?

What do you mean by that?

Make people forget it?

What - just because I made an astute observation?

Degrade it?

How - in making an astute observation, does this amount to trying to degrade it?

Make it meaningless?

Apparently the anglicized version means 'Lord' as in - a title - not a name.

Specifically not a name.

But the title 'Lord' isn't meaningless. Anyone can be viewed as a lord.

Dishonor it?

How - in making an astute observation - does this amount to trying to dishonor it?

Was Jesus a fool when he said, "So pray this way: Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored". - Matthew 6:9

What has that got to do with anything? 'Father' is also a title. Jesus gave no specific name of GOD and in that, well I can honor all honorable GODs, even the Earth Entity. Indeed, it would be good practice to honor the EE - Because isn't it more the case of honoring the being behind the name?

Woe unto those who bring ill repute to any idea of GOD worthy of being called a GOD, for it shall contribute to their undoing.

Woe unto those who call themselves by the title of a GOD and bring ill repute to the that title through their behavior, for it shall contribute to their undoing.

Woe unto those who worship such a being, or any title it claims, for it shall contribute to their undoing.

That's what I think, anyway.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:41 am

Lets go back to Gen, 3;13. Moses asked God his name. Here is the reply.

3:14, "And God said to Moses, Ehyeh Asher-Ehyeh. He continued, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites, Ehyeh sent me to you." And God said further to Moses,: The Lord, the God of your father, the God of abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you:
This shall be My name forever.
This My applellation for all eternity.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:58 am

[Replying to post 76 by William]
You're answering my questions with questions. Dodging as usual I see. I'll ask again, what are you doing to sanctify God's name? Because from what I see, you are not. So what are you trying to accomplish when you say, "It is almost as if...the name of a GOD is more important than the GOD." You are certainly not sanctifying God's name so what are you doing? Seems to me that you're trying to make it less than than the title 'god'. Does it not inspire you to sanctify the name of the person that is saving humanity? Do you not love God and His name, which stands for all the good in the world? Answer the questions please and not with questions. Otherwise I will think that you hate God's name if you do not answer if you love it or not.

Jehovah has put a lot of effort into His name. Why do you attack it with derogatory statements? You say, ""It is almost as if...the name of a GOD is more important than the GOD." The Bible says...

Thus you led your people in order to make a beautiful name for your own self. (Isaiah 63:14b)

"O Jehovah, you are my God. I exalt you, I praise your name, For you have done wonderful things, Things purposed from ancient times, In faithfulness, in trustworthiness." (Isaiah 25:1)

God is not unrighteous so as to forget your work and the love you showed for his name. (Heb. 6:10)

"let those who love your name exult in you." (Psalms 5:11)

That last scripture I'm guessing doesn't apply to you eh? The personality of God and His name are two sides of the same coin. According to the scriptures to love God's name is to love Him. What say you?

William · Post by **William** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:08 pm

[Replying to post 78 by 2timothy316]

I see you didn't really read my reply, or if you did you didn't understand it and are reflecting back a distorted interpretation of what I said along with personal opinions about me and my motives.

I will leave it up to the reader to decide which one of us is being honest about this, but as far as I can tell, there is no actual name given to the biblical idea of GOD. There is only title.

The idea of the 'name' has a lot to do with reputation as far as I can tell. Certainly the titles act as indicators in regard to that.

btw - the practice of responding to questions with questions is not for the purpose of deflection but of wanting my accuser to have the opportunity to examine his/her self in relation to his/her accusations towards my character and his/her attempts therein to besmirch my 'name' (character).

My original comment was an astute observation. If one was to come knocking at my door with claims that GODs name was Jehovah and we should honor that name, I would be happy to say the same thing.

"It is almost as if...the name of a GOD is more important than the GOD."

I would also be happy to ask them the same questions I asked you. And if they responded in the same way as you have done, I would be happy to point out that they are best not to knock on my door and besmirch my 'name' (character) in the pretext of doing so as witnesses to their idea of GOD.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:38 pm

William wrote: [Replying to post 78 by 2timothy316]

I see you didn't really read my reply, or if you did you didn't understand it and are reflecting back a distorted interpretation of what I said along with personal opinions about me and my motives.

I will leave it up to the reader to decide which one of us is being honest about this, but as far as I can tell, there is no actual name given to the biblical idea of GOD. There is only title.

So what Jesus prayed for, the sanctification of God's name is not possible. You don't believe the Bible is the word of God if I remember correctly. This explains a lot.

The idea of the 'name' has a lot to do with reputation as far as I can tell.

And you'd be wrong according to the scriptures. The name is followed by ""
Do you not understand that "" does not mean 'reputation'?

btw - the practice of responding to questions with questions is not for the purpose of deflection but of wanting my accuser to have the opportunity to examine his/her self in relation to his/her accusations towards my character and his/her attempts therein to besmirch my 'name' (character).

Your character could have been made clear easily by just answering the question: Do you love God's name? All those questions did was not answer the question. I'm not concerned with your name, but what are you doing besmirching God's name? By belittling God's name you are harming His reputation, but you don't see that do you? It seems you hate the name. You either love "" or you don't. Which is it? Forget about what God's name is in English or any language for the moment and answer. Clear all of this up for me, your character, your motives and answer the question, do you love God's name want to see it glorified or not?

Bonus question: Is the following scripture a lie or did Jesus fail and is still failing? "I have revealed Your name to the men You gave Me from the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word." (John 17:6 HCSB)