The Kingdom of Heaven

[Elijah John]

Does (or will) the Kingdom of Heaven transcend the walls (metaphorical) of the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses?

Will those outside of the Watch Tower organization be part of the Kingdom? Will they inherit "eternal life in Paradise on Earth"?

Why or why not?

[JehovahsWitness]

Every theologian except your sect and a few, accept the fact that we don't know for sure.

Firstly we are not a sect, we are christians. Further I have to ask, do you know the difference between pronunciation and identification.? I do and I also know that is the key as to what most scholars recognize we do and don't know for sure.

I don't know why this troubles you so.

We are not troubled at all. YOU are the one that felt the need to question our use of The Name. Are you troubled by the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are perfectly capable of defending our position or is it just the letter /J/ that bothers you ?



A brief history of the letter J for your viewing pleasure!

[youtube][/youtube]

[Overcomer]

Jehovah's Witness wrote:

Firstly we are not a sect, we are christians.

How are you defining "Christian?"

Since the days of the early church, orthodox Christianity has included this:

God exists in three persons -- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, with Jesus as the second person of the Trinity who has existed eternally and is identical with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit in essence as well as attributes.

Christ died on the cross, atoning for the sins of humankind. He rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of God the Father.

Salvation is by faith in Christ and his atonement, not by works.

That's what a Christian believes. If you, as a JW, believe those things, you are a Christian. If you don't, you're not a Christian, but a member of a non-Christian church that perverts Christianity.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 60 by onewithhim]

That was a good point, the bible uses the expression "saved" in a variety of ways. Some to refer to a future event. We believe that Jehovah ultimately judges.

JW

[showme]

[Replying to post 60 by onewithhim]

That was a good point, the bible uses the expression "saved" in a variety of ways. Some to refer to a future event. We believe that Jehovah ultimately judges.

JW

Judges who, what, when, and where?

[dianaiad]

Jehovah's Witness wrote:

Firstly we are not a sect, we are christians.

How are you defining "Christian?"

Since the days of the early church, orthodox Christianity has included this:

God exists in three persons -- God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, with Jesus as the second person of the Trinity who has existed eternally and is identical with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit in essence as well as attributes.

Christ died on the cross, atoning for the sins of humankind. He rose from the dead and sits at the right hand of God the Father.

Salvation is by faith in Christ and his atonement, not by works.

That's what a Christian believes. If you, as a JW, believe those things, you are a Christian. If you don't, you're not a Christian, but a member of a non-Christian church that perverts Christianity.

Let's see....I'm experiencing a severe case of deja vu here...

I have to ask you why you get to define 'Christian?" If this isn't your definition, then whose is it, and why are they the authorities?

The dictionary defines "Christian" as:

a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I would add "and who claims to be one," out of respect for those who might profess belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ but do not identify themselves as Christian.

Here's the thing about the dictionary; it is descriptive, not prescriptive. In other words, it doesn't tell us what some 'higher authority who is in charge of this stuff" has decided that words should mean. It tells us how a word is defined by the majority of those who actually use it. As an example, look at some of the words that have changed or added meanings over the years, and how the dictionary deals with those changes. Words like "gay," "fizzle," 'silly,' "awful," or "egregious." Some words change meanings faster than others, but one thing one can depend upon, usually: modern dictionaries describe what most people mean when they use a word, NOT what the word should mean in spite of the way most people use it.

This long winded introduction leads up to this: If JW's believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ (and they do) and they claim to be Christian (and as far as I know, they do) then they are. Christian, that is.

It doesn't make them right, or 'saved,' (whatever that means) or 'born again," or 'special." "Christian" is a classification of belief, not a declaration of salvation.

I have found that many Christians define "Christian" as "he who believes the same thing I do about Christ," or "he who is correct about Christ," and then they give a list of things that Must Be Believed in order to be a 'true Christian." Those lists differ amazingly, and I don't think I've found many Christians who have come up with the same list everybody else has. In fact, I don't think I've found any Christians who have the same list of requirements that ANYbody else has.

So. JW's are Christians. So, I imagine, are you. So are the Catholics and the Baptists and the Lutherans and the Episcopalians and the Mormons and the Presbyterians and the Seventh Day Adventists and, and, and.....and they will remain so until THEY say they aren't.

Whether you or I agree with their beliefs or not.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 91 by JehovahsWitness]

We are all a sect of Judiasm. No slight was meant there. Each denomination is one.

I have no problem with your use of Jehovah to address the Lord. He gave Himself the moniker. He said I am Elohim when I judge and Jehovah when I comfort.

The problem I have is you insisting it is His actual proper name. I have showed you how that is very unlikely thru language. Short of Him saying so, there is no way to know 100%. To say otherwise is false.

We have derailed this thread enough.

[JehovahsWitness]

I have no problem with your use of Jehovah to address the Lord... The problem I have is you insisting it is His actual proper name.

The God of the Bible says "I am JEHOVAH (YHWH) that is my name" that is a direct quote, so I am obliged to believe God over you. In other words the bible says "I am YHWH that is my name" you say you have a "problem" with people saying YHWH (Jehovah) is God's name. Do you have a problem with GOD saying that is his name because the bible record has those exact words atttributed to Him. Anyway, if you don't have a problem with people rejecting your teaching (which I do) and believing scripture instead, then we're all good.

If you want to stop derailling this thread, I do believe you have the option of simply not replying.

Have an excellent weekend,


JW

[brianbbs67]

I have no problem with your use of Jehovah to address the Lord... The problem I have is you insisting it is His actual proper name.

The God of the Bible says "I am JEHOVAH (YHWH) that is my name" that is a direct quote, so I am obliged to believe God over you. In other words the bible says "I am YHWH that is my name" you say you have a "problem" with people saying YHWH (Jehovah) is God's name. Do you have a problem with GOD saying that is his name because the bible record has those exact words atttributed to Him. Anyway, if you don't have a problem with people rejecting your teaching (which I do) and believing scripture instead, then we're all good.

If you want to stop derailling this thread, I do believe you have the option of simply not replying.

Have an excellent weekend,


JW

Your scripture is polluted. if you wish to remain blind, fine. Jehovah is a 13th century creation of the Catholic church and admitted by them as not correct just an Anglican transliteration. (should we go on with Christ's name?) Your not going to find that word, except the 3 or 4 times it is actually used, in any Torah.

The truth has been sufficiently shown for everyone but you and your fellows. If you ignore it, that's fine. Doesn't mean its not true.

See you next time. Peace to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

Your scripture is polluted. if you wish to remain blind, fine

Jehovah's Witnesses accept the bible as the uncorrupted (unpolluted) word of God. Your comment implies the bible cannot be trusted as a source of accurate information and our position is that it can.

If your justification for attacking the Divine Name is because you been lead to believe the bible is polluted, then I would ask you by what authority you say what you do? After all were you not referring to that same "polluted" scripture when you assured me God's name is ELOHIM? Where have you gotten anything you have said if not from scripture, yet now you (I suspect because you hae failed to present a reasonable argument) restort to denegrading the same authority you yourself site.

In any case the point is clear, the bible is very explicit as to the name of the God of the Hebrews (YHWH).

Your not going to find that word, except the 3 or 4 times it is actually used, in any Torah.

CLICK ON THE PICTURE TO ENLARGE

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah is a 13th century creation of the Catholic church and admitted by them as not correct just an Anglican transliteration.

I don't care what the Catholic Church says, if the Catholic Church declared the sky blue I'd go out and check - and while Catholic scholars where indeed the first to translate the bible into English (by virtue of the fact that they held a veritable monopoly on access to scripture at the time) we are no longer in the dark ages and any scolar with the will and the education can verify the work they did.

As for the "invention" of English pronunciation , modern ENGLISH is itself a 13th century "invention", our language is relatively new and everything in the bible had to be translated from its original Hebrew to our "13th century language", including all the Hebrew names; where do you think the English name JESUS came from?


JW