Who do you cheer for?

[Wootah]

The athlete or the coach or the judge?

Can any creature really score a perfect 10?

Well even I am going to pause to consider that metaphor for the trinity.

[Wootah]

Actually this thread began in my mind as a response thread to why do some Christians seem to worship Jesus more than the Father especially when Jesus did worship the Father.

I realised that we cheer the athlete or actor not the coach or the director and it is Jesus that saves us.

Then i realised that there was a metaphor in there for the trinity.
Athlete - Jesus
Coach - Holy Spirit
Judge - Father

This is what we (many) do, but should we? Do you think Jesus came to seek glory for himself? Or to glorify the Father.

Is the Father only a judge? Or does your metaphor allow for Him to be "Father" as well.

I'm not convinced this is fitting metaphor for the trinity as my understanding is that all three person's in the trinity are distinct and different, but all co-equal. .

However the athlete obeys the instructions of the coach, and a judge would have authority over both coach and athlete. I believe most Trinitarian would accept that this is not presently the balance of power that exists today even if they claim that was the situation in the past. So at best a Trinitarian might suggest athlete, coach and judge two thousand years ago but today no individual in the trinity can thus be described.

Whilst I never claim perfection in a metaphor and I don't think we can ever understand the mystery completely, I don't see how 'judge, coach or athlete' makes them unequal. What makes anything in my metaphor unequal? Male and female are different but co-equal (does equal need the co-?). etc.

What changed after 2000 or 2000000 years?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 21 by Wootah]

Do you believe a Judge is equal in power and influence to an athelete?

• If a judge deems that an athlete has done something illegal can the athlete say, "well I don't care what you say I aint going to jail and there's nothin' you can do about it because you and I have the same powers"?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 22 by JehovahsWitness]

No athletes. No judges. But yeah the metaphor holds up.

Infact DI points out that this athlete was so amazing that he will be allowed to judge from now on.

[Elijah John]

Actually this thread began in my mind as a response thread to why do some Christians seem to worship Jesus more than the Father especially when Jesus did worship the Father.

I realised that we cheer the athlete or actor not the coach or the director and it is Jesus that saves us.

Then i realised that there was a metaphor in there for the trinity.
Athlete - Jesus
Coach - Holy Spirit
Judge - Father

To go with your metaphor, who do people usually love most? The athlete or a team of athletes, right? Sometimes the coach. But who loves the judge? The referees or the umpire? I doubt many even know the ref's name.

And in fact, that seems to be what has happened. How many even use the name of the LORD at all? How many even know that when they say "Hallelujah" the term means "praise YHVH"? And not "praise Jesus"?

In the "Old" Testament, all praise, glory and honor was directed to the Father alone, (YHVH). In the New Testament, all praise, glory and honor is directed at Jesus. Except, of course, by Jesus himself, who directed worship to the Father alone.

It's all about love and devotion. Jesus (the athlete) is loved, cheered for, worshipped and honored. THe Father is literally on the sidelines, in the background. And most have even forgotten His name. Athletes and teams are loved. Referees and umpires? Not so much.

Ironic, since Jesus himself teaches us to hallow the name of the Father.

[JehovahsWitness]

What changed after 2000 ... years?

Well many trinitarians will claim Jesus was not equal to God only while he was on earth. They cannot deny Jesus said "The Father is greater then I" but they claim that was ONLY while he was on earth as a human. They claim he became once more EQUAL to the Father after he returned to heaven 2000 years ago.

So that would mean since Jesus resurrection (about 2000 years ago) Jesus would be equal to the Father. If so, since Jesus' resurrection the metaphor of one (The Father) being and Judge and one (The Son) being an athelet, would not be suitable because it implies each has a different role and each role is not equal.

Then i realised that there was a metaphor in there for the trinity.
Athlete - Jesus
Coach - Holy Spirit
Judge - Father

The trinity is three distinct and separate persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and this metaphor implies different role for each.

From what I can see the metaphor is NOT that ...

- the Father is Judge AND coach AND athlete
- the Holy Spirit is Judge AND coach AND athlete
- the Son is Judge AND coach AND athlete

... but rather one has one role with the other two do not have and as I said, a Judge is not equal to the athlete or the coach. I realize it is just a metaphor but I take it it was meant to apply ONLY for Jesus time on earth, not as it stands for the trinitarian view for their present co-equality.

[dio9]

The athlete or the coach or the judge?

Can any creature really score a perfect 10?

Well even I am going to pause to consider that metaphor for the trinity.

Jesus is the perfect 10 and Jesus is fully human . (I take this to mean he is just like us in every way) So yes a creature like us can score a perfect 10.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

You over emphasise the judge. The judge can only reflect the truth of the performance, they cant lower it or raise it and still be considered honest.

[Wootah]

The athlete or the coach or the judge?

Can any creature really score a perfect 10?

Well even I am going to pause to consider that metaphor for the trinity.

Jesus is the perfect 10 and Jesus is fully human . (I take this to mean he is just like us in every way) So yes a creature like us can score a perfect 10.

Maybe. How many humans love their enemies? Its possible but an honest assessment at least is 0.

[Overcomer]

dio9 wrote:

Jesus is the perfect 10 and Jesus is fully human . (I take this to mean he is just like us in every way) So yes a creature like us can score a perfect 10.

How are you defining "a perfect 10"? What does that mean in practical terms?

And do you feel that you yourself have scored a perfect 10? If so, how did you do it? If not, why not? And what are you going to do to enable yourself to score it?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 25 by JehovahsWitness]

You over emphasise the judge. The judge can only reflect the truth of the performance, they cant lower it or raise it and still be considered honest.

Are you suggesting a Judge does NOT have the authority to impose an action over a coach or an athelete? Are you suggesting a judge is equal in power, influence and authority to a coach or an athelete?