Slavery

[imhereforyou]

I saw someone say they're 'a slave to christ'.
The term slave/slavery has a negative connotation to most of us so it seemed odd to use the term in such a manner.
I get the meaning as it was used but I wonder how beneficial/positive it is to use such a word (or any other word) that has such a negative history in a way that is meant to be positive.

We all know words and their usage changes over time and even between cultures in current times, but as a teacher once told me "words have meanings - mean what you say and say what you mean."

Does society do this (use a word/term/phase that's know to be negative in a opposite manner) with any other belief system or is it unique within Christianity? Can you think of examples?
Is it healthy to do such a thing? Does, in this instance, using such a negative word/phrase/term in such a manner dilute, or take away the historical impact, word/phrase/term? Or does it make a positive meaning less positive?
Or should we be more loose with words and their meanings?

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 25 by bluethread]

I simply find advocacy of slavery, even using the Bible as supporting document, is abhorrent.
What IS productive about the Bible advocating slavery? or, since there are many believers on this site who would say it does not, why do some advocates believe slavery is OK?

You are free to your views. However, they are your views and require justification, if you expect others to adopt them. As snarkle has pointed out the Scriptures do not advocate for slavery, they merely present it as an option. I know of no commandment to make someone a slave. There are two purposes related to the laws regarding the 'ebed and the 'amah(male and female bond servant). One has to do with criminal law and the other contract law. The prisoner of war is placed in servitude as a presumed belligerent. The debtor is placed in servitude out of economic necessity. Regarding what other people believe, I don't speak for them.

[bluethread]

Ahhh... so the creator of the universe and omnipotent moral keystone of all humanity advocates slavery because some things are even worse? Remember, this is a God who can supposedly do ANYthing. Yet he approves slavery because 'it could be worse?' Sorry, but this God of the Bible isn't even close to being a god. If he existed at all, he was a feckless idiot.

If you are going to play that card whenever you get backed into a corner, let's be frank. If a deity is omnipotent, whatever that deity says is the way it is and if it does not comport with what you in your infinite wisdom consider to be right and just, then it is tough cookies for you. However, if you wish to discuss the reasonableness of a set of rules and regulations, it behooves you to do so on the merits of those rules and regulations.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 41 by bluethread]

True, but I think any real religion would have:
Thou shalt not make slaves of other men.
As a commandment.

It rather goes against every other bit of any other religion, once again proving the fallacy of Judeo-Christianity:

The Golden Rule. Obviously no one desires to be a slave.
Being made in his image. God did not make us his slaves, in fact free-will is necessary for many people's justification of the religion.

So, I am not so barbaric as to need a justification as to why slavery is bad. But I have provided edification as to why a Jew or Christian should not believe in it. Yet slavery is part of the Bible, as an "option," as you will.

Slavery, genocide, murder, whenever certain people do them... great options. If you are not their victims.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 41 by bluethread]

True, but I think any real religion would have:
Thou shalt not make slaves of other men.
As a commandment.

Your opinion is noted.

It rather goes against every other bit of any other religion, once again proving the fallacy of Judeo-Christianity:

The Golden Rule. Obviously no one desires to be a slave.
Being made in his image. God did not make us his slaves, in fact free-will is necessary for many people's justification of the religion.

Not that the practices that follow from other philosophies are relevant, but that assertion is not a historical fact. Many philosophies throughout history have recognized the institution of slavery to various degrees. Regarding the Golden Rule that is a two edged sword that is to be pointed primarily at oneself and not others. Though it can be argued that based on the Golden Rule one would not engage in the practice of slavery, it also dictates that one would not oppose the restraint of the social belligerent or the right of a creditor to collect on a legitimate debt.

So, I am not so barbaric as to need a justification as to why slavery is bad. But I have provided edification as to why a Jew or Christian should not believe in it. Yet slavery is part of the Bible, as an "option," as you will.

Again, there is no requirement that one keep slaves. That said, your "edification" appears to be a bit lacking in both evidence and reason.

Slavery, genocide, murder, whenever certain people do them... great options. If you are not their victims.

Ah, argument by extension, combined with the victim card for good measure. With regard to war, slavery provides an alternative to genocide, and murder is unlawful killing. Neither of those issues serves to support an outright prohibition of slavery. Though claiming victimhood has become a popular defense of the perpetrator lately, it ignores the actual victims, in this case, the law abiding citizen and creditor.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 44 by bluethread]

I can not believe I am even having such a repellent conversation. Who really needs to be told, evil is bad?
That slavery is bad?
Who could use any source to justify it?
What an excellent representation of the religion.
Certainly not one anyone who believes slavery is bad would follow.
It is going to be hard meeting other Jews and Christians now that I have been shown the justifications you have provided.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 44 by bluethread]

I can not believe I am even having such a repellent conversation. Who really needs to be told, evil is bad?
That slavery is bad?
Who could use any source to justify it?
What an excellent representation of the religion.
Certainly not one anyone who believes slavery is bad would follow.
It is going to be hard meeting other Jews and Christians now that I have been shown the justifications you have provided.

Who needs to justify their positions? Well, on this site, everyone. You are presuming that slavery in any and every form is evil. On what do you base that? Sure, it is not a good thing. It would be best if everyone could live according to the laws of the land and paid the debts that they incurred. However, the Constitution of these United States, specifically the thirteenth amendment regarding slavery, makes an exception "as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted". As a means of collecting debt, except debt owed to the government, it is illegal. However, what do you have to say to the creditor? Does he not have the right to be paid back?

[Tcg]

Slavery, genocide, murder, whenever certain people do them... great options. If you are not their victims.

You forgot homophobia and misogyny, but yes, if you are the one's practicing these evils, then you have no reason to be bothered by them. If you can find some ancient, outdated, morally repugnant texts to support your position, then you can also claim to take the moral high ground while practicing some of the most disgusting practices known to humans.

Of course while doing so, you can also claim to be a servant of the most high god. If this represents this god, I'd hate to meet the most low god.

[alexxcJRO]

[Replying to post 44 by bluethread]

I can not believe I am even having such a repellent conversation. Who really needs to be told, evil is bad?
That slavery is bad?
Who could use any source to justify it?
What an excellent representation of the religion.
Certainly not one anyone who believes slavery is bad would follow.
It is going to be hard meeting other Jews and Christians now that I have been shown the justifications you have provided.

Who needs to justify their positions? Well, on this site, everyone. You are presuming that slavery in any and every form is evil. On what do you base that? Sure, it is not a good thing. It would be best if everyone could live according to the laws of the land and paid the debts that they incurred. However, the Constitution of these United States, specifically the thirteenth amendment regarding slavery, makes an exception "as punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted". As a means of collecting debt, except debt owed to the government, it is illegal. However, what do you have to say to the creditor? Does he not have the right to be paid back?

Q: Would you like to be someone else's slave? To be someone else's property? To be sold or bought as merchandise? To be passed on as inheritance? (Yes/No question)

[Elijah John]

I saw someone say they're 'a slave to christ'.
The term slave/slavery has a negative connotation to most of us so it seemed odd to use the term in such a manner.
I get the meaning as it was used but I wonder how beneficial/positive it is to use such a word (or any other word) that has such a negative history in a way that is meant to be positive.

We all know words and their usage changes over time and even between cultures in current times, but as a teacher once told me "words have meanings - mean what you say and say what you mean."

Does society do this (use a word/term/phase that's know to be negative in a opposite manner) with any other belief system or is it unique within Christianity? Can you think of examples?
Is it healthy to do such a thing? Does, in this instance, using such a negative word/phrase/term in such a manner dilute, or take away the historical impact, word/phrase/term? Or does it make a positive meaning less positive?
Or should we be more loose with words and their meanings?

It is an insult to those on this planet that suffer from actual slavery. Therefore, said poster should stop using the phrase. Pretending to be something that you are not while there are real people suffering from it, is immoral IMO.

Said poster has been informed of this many times. Unfortunately, one side affect of religion is the ability to be insulting/immoral while feeling justified. Yay religion!!!

As Bob Dylan put it:

.. you're gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Seems the person in question is using the term "slave" in a similar fashion to Dylan using the term "servant" in his song.

[imhereforyou]

I saw someone say they're 'a slave to christ'.
The term slave/slavery has a negative connotation to most of us so it seemed odd to use the term in such a manner.
I get the meaning as it was used but I wonder how beneficial/positive it is to use such a word (or any other word) that has such a negative history in a way that is meant to be positive.

We all know words and their usage changes over time and even between cultures in current times, but as a teacher once told me "words have meanings - mean what you say and say what you mean."

Does society do this (use a word/term/phase that's know to be negative in a opposite manner) with any other belief system or is it unique within Christianity? Can you think of examples?
Is it healthy to do such a thing? Does, in this instance, using such a negative word/phrase/term in such a manner dilute, or take away the historical impact, word/phrase/term? Or does it make a positive meaning less positive?
Or should we be more loose with words and their meanings?

It is an insult to those on this planet that suffer from actual slavery. Therefore, said poster should stop using the phrase. Pretending to be something that you are not while there are real people suffering from it, is immoral IMO.

Said poster has been informed of this many times. Unfortunately, one side affect of religion is the ability to be insulting/immoral while feeling justified. Yay religion!!!

As Bob Dylan put it:

.. you're gonna have to serve somebody
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord, but you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Seems the person in question is using the term "slave" in a similar fashion to Dylan using the term "servant" in his song.

When Bob Dylan is brought into the topic is when it becomes scary