The Mental-Illness Theory of Religion

[Jagella]

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

It should be instructive to begin to discuss this theory with an analogy that should clarify that psychological disturbance underlies belief in gods and the supernatural. Let's say that I am sincerely claiming that I am in touch with powerful extraterrestrials. I say I communicate with them telepathically. I can and do ask them to use their highly-advanced technology to help me, and they grant my requests. I testify that their help to me has included their curing my illnesses and altering the weather for me. When skeptics ask about my ET friends, I explain that the skeptics need to please these ETs by accepting their existence. Otherwise, the skeptics will receive nothing from them!

It gets even better. I am certain that one day soon these ETs will arrive on earth from space with a spectacular display of their most advanced technologies. They will alter the light-refraction traits of the atmosphere to darken the sun and make the moon blood-red. They'll even make it appear that the stars are falling to the earth! And if that's not impressive enough, they will incinerate all people who have refused to believe in them with death-ray energy beams. Those of us who have faithfully followed these ETs will be teleported into their spacecraft to be taken away to live in paradise forever on their planet, Mumbo-Jumbo.

I'm crazy as anybody here, both believer and unbeliever, can clearly see. I'm very deluded. Yet, with just a few changes of the words I'm using, you can uncover basic Christian theology.

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

[Tcg]

You're still dodging the question for debate. Please answer it.

Actually, I was agreeing with you but my use of sarcasm must have obscured that fact. My point was that when the choice is between the belief in the idea of being controlled by the Devil versus being controlled by god, the choice results in the same damage to one's psyche no matter what light the idea of being controlled by the "good" monster is put in. The message in either case is that one is flawed, weak, and evil.

To answer your question, yes, I'm very familiar with the idea of being under the influence of the Christian god. I used to be a Christian, and I endured all of those creepy beliefs. My belief in the Christian god gave me nightmares, and I was afraid I was losing my mind. Fortunately I escaped it, and for the most part the psychological harm has gone away.

I'm glad to here you have found some measure of relief from the deeply harmful aspects of religion. I wish more could do the same.

But yes, I'm well aware that some people like religious ideas. As I have said, maybe some people enjoy believing in a monster god, and the idea that they can commune with invisible people appeals to them. Maybe sanity is overrated.

I think that sanity has been poorly defined when it includes an exchange of rationality for the sake of comfort as is the case in most religions.

[bluethread]

Since you're dodging the question for discussion, then I am fully justified in concluding that you are well aware that religion, Christianity in particular, is a delusion and therefore a mental illness.

Thank you for that tacit concession.

I do hope that this thread contributes to the practice of psychological therapy and treatment for the mental illness of religion. We can only gain when people get the help they need.

I am just leaving it to those who seem to be doing a good enough job already. Unlike you, I do not jump to self serving conclusions. I inquire, as I did with regard to your vehement rejection of anecdotal evidence being presented as more credible that academic research, when presented by others, while doing the same yourself. Since you did not respond to that inquiry, I will not presume anything other than it appears to be contradictory behavior. Your psychological health is your own affair.

[Tcg]

I know what crazy is.

With all due respect to your personal experience, you know what your particular version of crazy is. Take even a quick look at a DSM-5, or just about any DSM, and you'll find there are many versions of crazy.

Of course not all versions of crazy are considered problematic. As has been noted in this thread, crazy is only considered a mental health issue if it interferes with normal functioning. If crazy helps a person function, it's considered to be Okeydokey.

Crazy, isn't it?

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 31 by Tcg]

Actually, I was agreeing with you but my use of sarcasm must have obscured that fact.

There's no place for sarcasm when the discussion centers on a very serious mental-health issue. Would you joke about cancer? To underscore just how important this issue is, you may wish to check out A Mother's Madness | Andrea Yates Documentary. Andrea Yates murdered her five children because she believed they would go to hell if they lived. She was a Christian and had been involved with a street preacher who taught her about hell and the devil. One of the psychiatrists who examined Yates said that her Christian beliefs played a part in her psychosis.

I keep pointing out the harmful effects of religion like these tragic cases, but people still won't give up those beliefs. So I must conclude that the religious don't care who gets hurt. Or if they do care, they nevertheless see their ticket to heaven as more important than human well-being. Some hurt or dead people is just the price to pay when eternal salvation is at stake. We must get to heaven by hook or by crook.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 32 by bluethread]

I am just leaving it to those who seem to be doing a good enough job already.

Good enough job at what? Obscuring the issue?

Unlike you, I do not jump to self serving conclusions. I inquire, as I did with regard to your vehement rejection of anecdotal evidence being presented as more credible that academic research, when presented by others, while doing the same yourself. Since you did not respond to that inquiry, I will not presume anything other than it appears to be contradictory behavior.

I'm still wondering what any of this has to do with the topic. It's a text-book case of at least two logical fallacies. It is both a personal attack and is irrelevant.

Your psychological health is your own affair.

And the emotional well-being of all people in society is the affair of everybody, or at least it should be.

[FarWanderer]

There are some viable theories of religious belief, and to posit that religious belief is a mental illness is one such theory.

It should be instructive to begin to discuss this theory with an analogy that should clarify that psychological disturbance underlies belief in gods and the supernatural. Let's say that I am sincerely claiming that I am in touch with powerful extraterrestrials. I say I communicate with them telepathically. I can and do ask them to use their highly-advanced technology to help me, and they grant my requests. I testify that their help to me has included their curing my illnesses and altering the weather for me. When skeptics ask about my ET friends, I explain that the skeptics need to please these ETs by accepting their existence. Otherwise, the skeptics will receive nothing from them!

It gets even better. I am certain that one day soon these ETs will arrive on earth from space with a spectacular display of their most advanced technologies. They will alter the light-refraction traits of the atmosphere to darken the sun and make the moon blood-red. They'll even make it appear that the stars are falling to the earth! And if that's not impressive enough, they will incinerate all people who have refused to believe in them with death-ray energy beams. Those of us who have faithfully followed these ETs will be teleported into their spacecraft to be taken away to live in paradise forever on their planet, Mumbo-Jumbo.

I'm crazy as anybody here, both believer and unbeliever, can clearly see. I'm very deluded. Yet, with just a few changes of the words I'm using, you can uncover basic Christian theology.

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

If you believe Christianity is a mental illness then you essentially believe that Western Civilization was entirely comprised of "mentally ill" people for something like 50 generations.

It's absurd right on the face of it.

[Jagella]

[Replying to post 36 by FarWanderer]

If you believe Christianity is a mental illness then you essentially believe that Western Civilization was entirely comprised of "mentally ill" people for something like 50 generations.

It's absurd right on the face of it.

You have posted at least two errors here. First, mentally ill people are quite capable of making very significant contributions to civilization. It's very important to understand that I'm not saying we should disrespect mentally ill people. People with emotional problems are as valuable as anybody else, and they can be very productive.

Another error is your characterizing Western Civilization as being entirely comprised of the religious. Many millions of nonreligious people have helped to build our civilization as well as the religious. In fact, as modern science and technology advances, religiosity wanes.

So good try, but you'll need to come up with an argument based in the facts if you want to convince anybody that religion is not a mental illness.

[historia]

You're not answering the question for discussion.

I did already. See post 2.

I did not ask if religion is "beneficial" emotionally.

Right, but as I've indicated above, mental illness, by definition, is "associated with distress and/or problems functioning in social, work or family activities," so the American Psychiatric Association.

Since we've seen that religious involvement, in general, doesn't entail those problems -- and, in fact, often entails better mental health -- it cannot rightly be classified as a mental illness.

I don't think the religion you try needs to be Christianity. No doubt "religious involvement" might include astrology, numerology, or even water witching!

This is unfounded. The features of religion that lead to better coping with stress and less depression, suicide, anxiety, and substance abuse are not present in any of these examples you've offered.

Anecdotal evidence provides insufficient warrant to claim that the amassed research of hundreds of psychological studies is flawed.

So I'm supposed to disregard what I know to be true about the psychological effects of religion and accept what you've posted in this forum?

To paraphrase another participant in this thread: What good will psychological evidence do you if it concludes that religious belief is not mental illness? Won't you just deny that evidence too?

If you're interested in the truth, and not simply promoting your own partisan viewpoints, you should absolutely incorporate the findings of over 700 psychological studies into you conclusions, as that is significant evidence.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 38 by historia]

So, if we are going to make this about all religious people then the conversation can be cut quite quickly.

Insanity cannot be taught. Irrational principles and beliefs may be, but insanity is the parlance of individuals, not groups, with the exceptional instances of mass hysteria.

Can we get back on topic now, or is this another blow against Judeo-Christianity that is going to be resolved by changing the subject?

[tam]

May you all have peace!


[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Why, then, is Christianity and other religions not mental illness?

The following is the first thing that came up when I googled, "Is religious belief mental illness?" Before anyone reads it, please keep in mind that even a psychiatrist (who has studied for years for and in his profession, so as to understand all the terms used) will not 'armchair diagnose' anyone without personal observation of the actual person and listening to them speaking.


Is faith delusion - Royal College of Psychiatrists

https://rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/is%20faith%20 ... ditedx.pdf


Here is the definition of delusion (the form of mental illness the OP is attempting to portray) from the paper:

Definition of delusion

A delusion is a false, unshakeable idea or belief, which is out of
keeping with the patients educational, cultural and social background; it is
held with extraordinary conviction and subjective certainty In practice,
definition is the imposition by the doctor of his interpretation of the patients
subjective symptom and is rather unsatisfactory. Delusion is experienced as
an ordinary notion or assumption rather than a belief, for example, it is my
belief that Susie broke the champagne glass, not I believe as a credal
statement.

A delusion is held on delusional grounds. A man knew, with absolute
certainty, that his wife was being unfaithful to him. Subsequently, it transpired
that she was being unfaithful at that time. However, this was still a delusion
because the reason for his certainty was: When I came out of the house and
passed the fifth lamp post on the right, it had gone out. Then, I knew, with
certainty, that she was unfaithful. Technically, this would be described as a
delusional percept: a normal perception (the light gone out) with a delusional
interpretation (that certainly means that she is unfaithful).

Here is the summary of the answer to the question, Is faith delusion (which is also the answer to the question posed in the OP):

Summarizing delusion

Is faith a delusion? Although, not infrequently, the content of delusions
is religious, faith, of itself, is not a delusion. This is true even for minority and
socially disapproved beliefs. For some cults, abnormal psychological
processes may be frequent but these are not delusions for the following
reasons:

1. They do not fulfil the criteria for definition of delusion - it is not out of
keeping with the patients cultural and social background.

2. They are not held on demonstrably delusional grounds.

3. Religious beliefs are spiritual, abstract, not concrete " God within me
is not experienced as a tactile sensation.

4. Religious beliefs are held with insight - it is understood that others may
not share their beliefs.

5. For religious people, bizarre thoughts and actions do not occur in other
areas of life, not connected with religion.

6. Religious ideas and predominant thinking is a description of content.
Religious delusions occur in a person whose predominant thinking is
religious. Faith is part of their personhood; delusion arises from
psychiatric disorder. A person with religious belief may have a delusion
but only if they have a concurrent psychiatric illness.

He then goes on to ask if other psychiatric symptoms can explain religious belief (which anyone can read for themselves), or if abnormal personality is the cause, etc, but I am going to highlight his conclusion, just for those who might think that they can interpret those findings differently, just from reading a paper but without having the experience and education/training to MAKE those diagnosis:

We have considered whether faith is a psychiatric symptom or
evidence of disturbed personality and concluded that it is not.

Peace again to you!


.