Who wrote the Gospels?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Sat May 12, 2018 3:27 pm

Probably Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John... Peter probably wrote one too... He certainly wrote other Epistles. Likely? That he wrote about his experiences with Jesus in a Gospel? Very likely.

There very may be many more authentic Gospels in existence. We probably dont even know the half of the amount of documents that are written about Jesus.. But there are hundreds... And probably hundreds more...

How likely is it for Mark, Matthew, Luke, actually existing? Like real people? Its very likely....

How likely is it that at least some of these books where in collaboration with eyewitnesses testimony? Very likely

Far as im concerned, the best history we can research is the history of the Church and the Temple. The Jewish Temple all the way down to Jesus, and Jesus all the way up to our church today. Beginning right from its base... Jesus, and the Disciples, all the way up the line. Maybe some of the best history you can research

In fact, im going to Rome, in 3 Weeks, did you know the Church goes back to the First Century? It is the Vatican, it was biult on Peters Grave... It exists

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 4:45 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 19 by Tart]

Yes, they came from the Counsil of Nicea.
That Council alleged that it collected the works of the apostles, translated them, and produced the first version of the Bible, then destroyed those previously existing works - for no adequately explainable reason.

So, where did they come from?
The same kinds of minds that brought you other myths.

The same kinds of people who wrote you Spiderman.

Why should we believe otherwise?
So where did they come from?
How do you know they were real, and not products designed to get you to:
Romans 13:1-14
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. .
1 Peter 2:13-14
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good.
Search Results
Image result for render unto caesar verse
Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

Sorry willum.. You need to go do some solid research, from an independent mind...

The stuff you believe, no one believes.. It is like putting on a tinfoil hat...

We cant have a reasonable debate on a platform like this...

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:00 pm

[Replying to post 21 by Tart]

Hmmm... so the Counsil of Nicea didn't exist?
Those quotations didn't come out of the Bible?
Gosh, you are right, I better go study.
What would you recommend as a better path to the truth, Alice in Wonderland? The Iliad? The Epic of Gilgamesh? Spiderman and his Amazing Friends?

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:11 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 21 by Tart]

Hmmm... so the Counsil of Nicea didn't exist?
Those quotations didn't come out of the Bible?
Gosh, you are right, I better go study.
What would you recommend as a better path to the truth, Alice in Wonderland? The Iliad? The Epic of Gilgamesh? Spiderman and his Amazing Friends?

No, you can go study any major atheist New Testament scholar (if you dont want an independent source), and they will tell you Paul existed...

Richard Carrier
Bart Ehrman
Robert Price

Do you have anyone who agrees with you Paul is fictional?

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Mon May 14, 2018 5:43 pm

[Replying to post 23 by Tart]

You don't see the folly of studying the works of people who study and become experts on Superman, Jesus and Gilgamesh?

WHYEVER not?

I've never understood it, the Bible isn't that long a book.
It isn't complicated, yet there are people, such as yourself, who need it explained?

See Jesus tested, see Jesus fail. See Jesus executed for false reasons. See Jesus die for sins. See Jesus resurrection non-sequitur.
Take acid, see Revelations.

Much less complicated than Superman vs the Mole-people.

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Mon May 14, 2018 6:22 pm

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 23 by Tart]

You don't see the folly of studying the works of people who study and become experts on Superman, Jesus and Gilgamesh?

WHYEVER not?

I've never understood it, the Bible isn't that long a book.
It isn't complicated, yet there are people, such as yourself, who need it explained?

See Jesus tested, see Jesus fail. See Jesus executed for false reasons. See Jesus die for sins. See Jesus resurrection non-sequitur.
Take acid, see Revelations.

Much less complicated than Superman vs the Mole-people.

Ok willum... you are clearly not interested in discussing the topic in a rational coherent way... If you would ever like to rationalize your beliefs consistent with the evidence, please come back and do that... But its pretty clear right now, the evidence is meaningless to you...

JoeyKnothead · Post by **JoeyKnothead** » Mon May 14, 2018 10:50 pm

From Post 11:

Tart wrote: Come on Joey, i would be happy to give you reasoning, but a mathematical equation?

Please note, you're the one that mentioned "probably" and "likely". Now that such claims have been challenged, do you seek to run from your claims, or do you just wanna run from the challenges to 'em?

Which is it?

Tart wrote: Get real dude... Are you guys really this unreasonable?

We now witness the "cutting edge" of Christian debate -

Make claims, then call any challenges to those claims "unreasonable".

LIARS LIE, AND PREACHERS PREACH!

How might we ever determine "probably" without us some math?

How might we ever determine "likely" without us some math? (had to edit me in that o in without, 'cause withut ain't even a word I can come up with)

Oh yeah - just declare it so, and accuse any challengers of being "unreasonable"!

LIARS LIE AND PREACHERS PREACH!

Remember, Tart is on record as declaring to refuse supporting his claims, claims which had to be sent to Random Ramblings for his lack of any semblence of support.

Liars...

And preachers...

marco · Post by **marco** » Tue May 15, 2018 5:20 am

Tart wrote:

Sorry willum.. You need to go do some solid research, from an independent mind...

The stuff you believe, no one believes.. It is like putting on a tinfoil hat...

We cant have a reasonable debate on a platform like this...

Moderator Comment

It is perhaps kind of you to advise others on how to think and do research but it is better to stick to debating issues. Avoid making personal comments.

Please review the Rules.

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marco · Post by **marco** » Tue May 15, 2018 5:25 am

Tart wrote:

Ok willum... you are clearly not interested in discussing the topic in a rational coherent way... If you would ever like to rationalize your beliefs consistent with the evidence, please come back and do that... But its pretty clear right now, the evidence is meaningless to you...

Moderator Comment

It is rather uncivil to speculate on someone's rationality. Keep your comments to the subject under debate.

Please review the Rules.

______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

Willum · Post by **Willum** » Tue May 15, 2018 8:43 am

[Replying to post 25 by Tart]

Ok willum... you are clearly not interested in discussing the topic in a rational coherent way... If you would ever like to rationalize your beliefs consistent with the evidence, please come back and do that... But its pretty clear right now, the evidence is meaningless to you...

So how is invoking the Bible and history texts not discussing the subject in a rational and coherent way?

Because it leads to a contradiction in what you believe?

I can't guess what comic-book writers are going to say about the new adventures of Captain America, nor am I able to guess what Carrier, Erhman are going to say about a religion.

If you wish to have a discussion about a particular, raise these superior mind's point about whatever story of the Bible and we can progress from there.

rikuoamero · Post by **rikuoamero** » Tue May 15, 2018 9:25 am

Tart wrote:
Willum wrote: [Replying to post 21 by Tart]

Hmmm... so the Counsil of Nicea didn't exist?
Those quotations didn't come out of the Bible?
Gosh, you are right, I better go study.
What would you recommend as a better path to the truth, Alice in Wonderland? The Iliad? The Epic of Gilgamesh? Spiderman and his Amazing Friends?
No, you can go study any major atheist New Testament scholar (if you dont want an independent source), and they will tell you Paul existed...

Richard Carrier
Bart Ehrman
Robert Price

Do you have anyone who agrees with you Paul is fictional?

Wait...you're invoking CARRIER as an authority? ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Do me a favour please and look up what Carrier is well known for.