This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 117 by polonius.advice]

Checkpoint posted

have yet to see from skeptic posters the slightest interest in, let alone grasp of, THE PLAIN MEANING OF THE WORDS (AND CONCEPT)JESUS USED each time he uttered "generation".

You posted
RESPONSE: Then perhaps you should reread my responses and perhaps seek some assistance . Hint: Assertions without evidence are prudently disregarded.

Begin by analyzing the term "this generation" determining the time frame this would include.

The simplest answer is the one found by doing an online word search for "generation" in the New Testament..... It it most certainly first century. " Mike Bull Mar 11 '13

In Deuteronomy 1:35 and 2:14 a generation is a period of thirty-eight years.

Jesus made this even clearer by saying some standing here so there would be no question about what he was saying (English Standard Version Matt 16:28 ) [/quote]

Jesus was not defining what he meant by "this generation" when e said "some standing here", no matter how many times this is confidently assumed and asserted.

This latest post of yours presented the results you obtained by following your own advice.

If you were to follow different advice, do different research, you may get a much better idea of what "this generation" meant when Jesus used it.

Who is "this generation"?

[polonius]

English Standard Version Matt 16:28

"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.

Jesus was not defining what he meant by "this generation" when he said "some standing here", no matter how many times this is confidently assumed and asserted.

QUESTION: Then are you claiming he was speaking of some other generation? Which generation do you have in mind?

This latest post of yours presented the results you obtained by following your own advice.

RESPONSE: No.I'm following scripture as it was written and the plain meaning of words.

If you were to follow different advice, do different research, you may get a much better idea of what "this generation" meant when Jesus used it.

RESPONSE: No. I'd probably get a spurious answer perhaps from some Fundamentalist..

Im satisfied with this present scripture and the other similar passages in scripture referring to those in Jesus' generation (such as the Apostles, the Chief Priest at the time, etc.), when Jesus said some of those standing here he meant some of those standing here.

Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus. Members of the generation he was addressing. (This is obvious.)

But, alas, Jesus was wrong. They didnt witness the Second Coming. We are still waiting.

[polonius]

1 Cor 10, 10:12

Paul wrote:
These things happened as examples for us,
so that we might not desire evil things, as they did.
Do not grumble as some of them did,
and suffered death by the destroyer.
These things happened to them as an example,
and they have been written down as a warning to us,
upon whom the end of the ages has come.
Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure
should take care not to fall.

But Paul was wrong too. Is all scripture really God breathed?

[Elijah John]

1 Cor 10, 10:12

Paul wrote:
These things happened as examples for us,
so that we might not desire evil things, as they did.
Do not grumble as some of them did,
and suffered death by the destroyer.
These things happened to them as an example,
and they have been written down as a warning to us,
upon whom the end of the ages has come.
Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure
should take care not to fall.

But Paul was wrong too. Is all scripture really God breathed?

"Us" meaning Paul and his contemporaries. Not to future readers thousands of years away.This passage is even more evidence that Paul and company believed they were living in the last days, the "end of the ages".

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 119 by polonius.advice]

I wrote

Jesus was not defining what he meant by "this generation" when he said "some standing here", no matter how many times this is confidently assumed and asserted.

You asked

QUESTION: Then are you claiming he was speaking of some other generation? Which generation do you have in mind?

Yes, I am claiming he was speaking of another generation.

That is, the one Jesus mentioned in Matthew 24:34.

One that existed at that time, yet one that is still with us today and will not pass away "until all these things are fulfilled".

That was what he said.

I have in mind what and who he had in mind.

How could there possibly be such a "generation"?

[Elijah John]

This from Wikipedia regarding Albert Schweitzer's take on this subject:

The concept that Christianity started as a Jewish apocalyptic movement is evidenced by the teachings of the Historical Jesus concerning the end of days. Not only did he preach he would rise from the grave, but that he would also ascend to the Heaven and one day return to judge and rule over the world, saying that no one, including himself, knew the exact time of his return, but it would be before the end of his generation. Schweitzer verified the many New Testament references clearly explaining that 1st-century Christians believed in the imminent fulfillment of the promise of the World's ending, within the lifetime of Jesus's original followers.[37] He noted that in the gospel of Mark, Jesus speaks of a "tribulation", with his coming in the clouds with great power and glory" (St Mark), and states when it will happen: "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" (St Matthew, 24:34) (or, "have taken place" (Luke 21:32))
In The Quest of the Historical Jesus, Schweitzer observes the Bible contradicting the possibility of important events that never took place and never can take place as they are described; Jesus specifically states that we are to "not seal up the words of the prophecy" and promises that some of his listeners as well as the high priest at his trial would be alive to see him return to the Earth. "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near" (Revelation 1:3). Saint Paul spoke of the "last times": "Brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none" (1 Corinthians 7:29); "God hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:2); "There be some standing here which shall not taste of death till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom" (Matthew 16:28) (or, "until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power" (Mark 9:1); or, "till they see the kingdom of God" (Luke 9:27).)
Schweitzer continues writing in The Quest of the Historical Jesus that it is totally unreasonable to think that "coming quickly", "near", and "soon" could mean hundreds of years, much less, thousands of years in the future. "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." (Revelation 1:3) "And he said to me, 'These words are faithful and true'; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place." "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." And he said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near" (Revelation 22:6, 7, 10, 12). "All these things shall come upon this generation" (Matthew 23:36). Schweitzer concludes that the 1st-century theology, originating in the lifetimes of those who first followed Jesus, is totally incompatible with modern Christian belief.
In The Quest of the Historical Jesus, Schweitzer notes the passage "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near." (Revelation 1:3) Similarly in St Peter: "Christ .. Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you" (1 Peter 1:20), and "But the end of all things is at hand" (1 Peter 4:7). "Surely I come quickly" (Revelation 22:20). Schweitzer felt that St. Paul clearly believed in the immediacy of the Second Coming of Jesus, in stark contrast to modern organized Christianity.

Whereas I rely heavily on the passage from Matthew, Schweitzer gives far more encompassing evidence. I was only dimly aware that other NT writers also expected the end of days in their own lifetimes, Schweitzer gives chapter and verse from many NT books, including Revelation.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 119 by polonius.advice]

Who is "this generation"?

RESPONSE: Those standing there with Jesus. Members of the generation he was addressing. (This is obvious.)

But, alas, Jesus was wrong. They didnt witness the Second Coming. We are still waiting.

He was not addressing "this generation" in 24:34 or 16:28.

So, alas, Jesus was not wrong in either verse.

They didnt witness the Second Coming because it hasn't happened yet as we are still waiting until...(24:34).

And he never said "some of those standing here" would.(16:28)

16:28 is not about "this generation", and is not about "the Second Coming" either.

[polonius]

He did not say "my generation", but "this generation".

RESPONSE: "In this case "my generation" was "this generation." Jesus clarified further by saying "some of those standing here."

Of course there are some posters who cannot admit they make such errors in their understanding of the Bible.

RESPONSE: So they post endlessly irrespective of the obvious meaning of words.
Perhaps you might want to write it down. The Second Coming hasn't occurred. Jesus was in error.

[Checkpoint]

He did not say "my generation", but "this generation".

RESPONSE: "In this case "my generation" was "this generation." Jesus clarified further by saying "some of those standing here."

Of course there are some posters who cannot admit they make such errors in their understanding of the Bible.

RESPONSE: So they post endlessly irrespective of the obvious meaning of words.
Perhaps you might want to write it down. The Second Coming hasn't occurred. Jesus was in error.

You have described well how you have been operating on this thread.

Endlessly in error.

Jesus was not in error when he said:

No one knows, however, when that day and hour will come--neither the angels in heaven nor the Son; the Father alone knows.

Keep alert therefore: for you know not what hour your Lord does come

For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect Him.

It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Matthew 24:36; 42-46; Acts 1:7.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 125 by polonius.advice]

Have you any RESPONSE to my post 122, including its closing question?