Is there ANY scientific evidence could show there is no God?

[Danmark]

Is there any scientific evidence that, if discovered, would prove to a Christian that the God of the Bible is man made and does not correspond to reality? In other words, is there anything you can imagine that would demonstrate there is no God?

Many Christian apologists appeal to science to support their belief in the Christian God; however, I suggest those apologists do not actually accept any scientific evidence that might suggest this 'God Story' is a hoax. I would like to test this hypothesis by asking if there is anything science could report that would convince believers in the God of the Bible that the Biblical claims about God are false?

[For_The_Kingdom]

[Replying to post 105 by For_The_Kingdom]

Did you ever participate in that one thread that asked what it would take to change your mind about this particular god existing? Without attacking science, what would it take for you to change your mind?

I don't recall that thread, but I will answer it here. That is actually a good question. To change my mind about this particular God would be difficult. Why?

Because. We know Christianity originated, right? Well, there has to be a reason why it originated, correct? Well, why would Christianity originate?

Because: People were going around claiming that they saw the risen Jesus of Nazareth.

Now, of course, the obvious refutation of this would be "People claim lots of things, how do you know if what they claimed is true".

Well, here is the thing; History tells us that people BELIEVED they saw the risen Jesus.

Well, if they "believed" that they saw the risen Jesus (as the historical record shows), then no one can claim that they were lying.

Well, if they weren't lying, and they really "believed" they saw the risen Jesus, then they were obviously sincere about what they believed.

Well, if they were sincere about genuinely believing that they saw the risen Jesus, then what BEST explains their belief?

Well, Christian apologists like myself would argue that the "belief" in the risen Jesus is BEST explained by the actual Resurrection of Jesus..and we feel as if history backs us up in this regard.

I personally think that history is pretty much set in stone regarding the belief of Jesus' original followers...so, unless one is going to rewrite history, as long as the historical records reflect a genuine, sincere belief in the risen Jesus by his original followers...I can't change my mind about it, because that is the direction the historical evidence is pointing.

And since I am all about truth, and following the evidence, that is where I landed once I followed the evidence.

[For_The_Kingdom]

Just read the Old Testament.

I did. But I need to know where the critics of the "God of the Old Testament" are getting there standard of morality from (a standard of which they are judging God), and how do they know that this standard is the correct standard to live by (of which God didn't live by).

I need to know this. If you can't tell me why your moral standards are more superior than God's, then I don't think you have a logical case against God of the Old Testament..

What else can you do with this obvious information?

Either Jesus clearly didn't know what he was talking about revealing that he could not possible have any divine knowledge of the world. Or the New Testament rumors about what Jesus had supposedly said got it all wrong.

Either way the religion is in dire trouble right?

DI, you just don't like Christianity, do you? You can't stand it. You hate it. It is just spewing from you.

Can me and you have a private conversation, bruh? Cmon, for eternity's sake.

I don't see where this thread is about sticking feet in the necks of atheists.

That sounds like some kind of sick "Holy War" to me.

Reading comprehension. I said "atheism", not "atheists".

Any all the while you have refused to address the obvious fact that the Gospels have Jesus proclaiming that God feeds the birds when we know for a fact that the birds aren't any different from any other animals species on earth including humans when it comes to getting any free ride in terms of obtaining food.

Before you bother responding to anything else I say please explain to me why Jesus didn't know this simple fact about the real world?

Birds are out there eating, right? I've never seen an anorexic bird. Have you? What do you do? Just scan through the Bible looking for any possible thing to attack? You can't stand Christianity that much?

I ask you..how about a private conversation? We can have a beer, and talk about some of this mess.

Until then Christianity remains proven false by its own obviously false claims. No science required to demonstrate its fallacy.

LOL.

[Divine Insight]

I did. But I need to know where the critics of the "God of the Old Testament" are getting there standard of morality from (a standard of which they are judging God), and how do they know that this standard is the correct standard to live by (of which God didn't live by).

I need to know this. If you can't tell me why your moral standards are more superior than God's, then I don't think you have a logical case against God of the Old Testament..

Well, unless you can tell me why your opinions on morality justify the behavior of the God of the Old Testament then I don't think you have a logical case that the God described in the Bible is moral.

Besides, since you want to speak in terms of logic my answer is simple. The God of the Bible violates his own standards of morality. Therefore he's an illogical God if not an immoral one. He's a textbook example of a logical contradiction.

DI, you just don't like Christianity, do you? You can't stand it. You hate it. It is just spewing from you.

Sorry, but just because you are getting all emotionally distraught over the facts I present does not mean that I have any emotional investment in this religion.

Can me and you have a private conversation, bruh? Cmon, for eternity's sake.

Evangelism is itself a contradiction.

If Yahweh and Jesus were unable to convince me via their "Holy Book", what makes you think that you could do better than them?

And if you did do better than them wouldn't that itself be proof that neither Yahweh or Jesus could possible have been God?

Also, what could you possibly say to me in private to convince me of this absurd religion that you can't say openly on these forums?

I have no desire to waste my time talking to any Christian who thinks he can do better than Yahweh and Jesus. They have an entire Holy Book that supposedly spans many centuries to make a compelling case for themselves and they have both failed miserably.

What on earth could you ever hope to say that could change that fact?

I don't see where this thread is about sticking feet in the necks of atheists.

That sounds like some kind of sick "Holy War" to me.

Reading comprehension. I said "atheism", not "atheists".

So atheism has "necks" that you can stick your feet in?

That's news to me.

Birds are out there eating, right? I've never seen an anorexic bird. Have you?

Birds have been documented to have died from starvation in droves.

Not only this but it's crystal clear that birds are often preyed upon and killed while out scavenging for food. Their babies in the nest then either die of starvation waiting to be fed, or are themselves eaten by predators.

Birds also often eat the young baby birds of other bird species. Is this how God feeds the birds?

Clearly you are in denial of the facts if you are going to continue to hold up the myth that there exists some God who feeds the birds.

What do you do? Just scan through the Bible looking for any possible thing to attack? You can't stand Christianity that much?

I look at the facts and report the truth. Do you have a problem with truth?

Apparently you are the one who can't stand the fact that I have found many obvious problems with this clearly false religion.

I ask you..how about a private conversation? We can have a beer, and talk about some of this mess.

We're talking about it right now. I don't have any beer here at the moment, but I could drive out and get some.

I'm not a big drinker but I do enjoy a glass or two on occasion.

But why the private conversation? What is it that you want to tell me that you can't tell me publicly?

Until then Christianity remains proven false by its own obviously false claims. No science required to demonstrate its fallacy.

LOL.

And again, you just respond with LOL when I made a very sound point that you have not been able to address.

Show me the evidence that God feeds the birds.

Here's something to read while you think about it:

Mass deaths of Alaska seabirds linked to starvation as scientists race to find clues

[Clownboat]

Because. We know Christianity originated, right? Well, there has to be a reason why it originated, correct? Well, why would Christianity originate?

Great question!

Consider reasons as for why other religions originated:
- To answer the hard questions like, why are we here, where do we go when we die and so on.
- Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca

What this shows us is that for a religion to originate, it does not take a god.

Surely, if you set your religion/faith aside for a moment, you would agree that all religions are false. Just like an atheist, they just take this concept one god further than you. Take a 100 god concepts, and you are 99% atheist. So ask yourself how those 99 originated. Whatever you do, DON'T apply those standards to yours though.

[For_The_Kingdom]

Well, unless you can tell me why your opinions on morality justify the behavior of the God of the Old Testament then I don't think you have a logical case that the God described in the Bible is moral.

We are talking about you right now, sir.

Besides, since you want to speak in terms of logic my answer is simple. The God of the Bible violates his own standards of morality. Therefore he's an illogical God if not an immoral one. He's a textbook example of a logical contradiction.

I need specifics, not generalizations.

Sorry, but just because you are getting all emotionally distraught over the facts I present does not mean that I have any emotional investment in this religion.

Oh, ok.

Evangelism is itself a contradiction.

Empty assertion.

If Yahweh and Jesus were unable to convince me via their "Holy Book", what makes you think that you could do better than them?

I guess some people just won't believe regardless of what is presented to them.

And if you did do better than them wouldn't that itself be proof that neither Yahweh or Jesus could possible have been God?

Oh, trust me...Yahweh/Jesus, and their methods of trying to convince you via the Bible or myself...that method is the more pleasurable of their options.

There are other ways to convince you, and I don't think those methods are more pleasurable for you.

The choice is obviously yours.

Also, what could you possibly say to me in private to convince me of this absurd religion that you can't say openly on these forums?

A lot.

I have no desire to waste my time talking to any Christian who thinks he can do better than Yahweh and Jesus. They have an entire Holy Book that supposedly spans many centuries to make a compelling case for themselves and they have both failed miserably.

What on earth could you ever hope to say that could change that fact?

A lot.

So atheism has "necks" that you can stick your feet in?

That's news to me.

SMH.

Birds have been documented to have died from starvation in droves.

Not only this but it's crystal clear that birds are often preyed upon and killed while out scavenging for food. Their babies in the nest then either die of starvation waiting to be fed, or are themselves eaten by predators.

Birds also often eat the young baby birds of other bird species. Is this how God feeds the birds?

Clearly you are in denial of the facts if you are going to continue to hold up the myth that there exists some God who feeds the birds.

LOL. When Jesus uttered those words, he didn't mean that "at no point in the history of the world will a bird ever die of starvation". He was specifying that, more often than not, he ensures that his creatures don't go without food.

And if that is the best you've got, no wonder you are lost.

I look at the facts and report the truth. Do you have a problem with truth?

Apparently you are the one who can't stand the fact that I have found many obvious problems with this clearly false religion.

LOL. Too funny.

We're talking about it right now. I don't have any beer here at the moment, but I could drive out and get some.

I'm not a big drinker but I do enjoy a glass or two on occasion.

But why the private conversation? What is it that you want to tell me that you can't tell me publicly?

Some people need that "special" attention. Like being at school..you have the regular class hours, and you have the after school tutoring..you know, for the students who "just don't get it".

No offense, not that you are "stupid" or anything (or even the kids, for that matter), but there seems to be a little more umph in your posts. I can tell by the tone of your posts.

Please accept the offer.

And again, you just respond with LOL when I made a very sound point that you have not been able to address.

Show me the evidence that God feeds the birds.

Here's something to read while you think about it:

Mass deaths of Alaska seabirds linked to starvation as scientists race to find clues

Oh, so I guess an autopsy was conducted on every single bird to find out cause of death?

[For_The_Kingdom]

Surely, if you set your religion/faith aside for a moment, you would agree that all religions are false. Just like an atheist, they just take this concept one god further than you. Take a 100 god concepts, and you are 99% atheist. So ask yourself how those 99 originated. Whatever you do, DON'T apply those standards to yours though.

Is how those other 99 religions originated relevant to ANYTHING that is going on here?

I fail to see the relevance.

[Divine Insight]

We are talking about you right now, sir.

No. On this forum you are not permitted to talk about other members.

Everything I have offered has nothing at all to do with me. I could have never existed and all of the arguments I have given would still be true.

My arguments do not depend on my existence. Neither are they just my opinions. They are demonstrable facts.

Evangelism is itself a contradiction.

Empty assertion.

It's not an empty assertion at all. To the contrary I gave the proof of this in my very next statement which you clearly did not comprehend.

Read it again:

If Yahweh and Jesus were unable to convince me via their "Holy Book", what makes you think that you could do better than them?

I guess some people just won't believe regardless of what is presented to them.

All you've done here is demonstrate your total inability to comprehend the point I just made.

If you could present information that hasn't already been presented via Yahweh in the OT and Jesus in the NT then you would need to add additional information that neither Yahweh nor Jesus were aware of. That would indeed make you quite special sir.

Not only this but if you succeeded where both Yahweh and Jesus had failed then you would necessarily be a superior communicate and teacher to both Jesus and Yahweh. Surely you can see why that would make absolutely no sense at all. We can't have you succeeding at things that Jesus and Yahweh had failed at.

This not only applies to you, but it applies to evangelism as a whole. This is why evangelism is a contradiction. It requires that mere mortal humans surpassed both Yahweh and Jesus in their ability to communicate and convince other humans who Yahweh and Jesus were unable to convince on their own.

But what is your response? You simply say, "I guess some people just won't believe regardless of what is presented to them."

But you haven't presented anything compelling. And we know that Jesus had no clue what he was talking about. And the ancient fables of Yahweh are not the least bit compelling. If anyone behaved the way that Yahweh behaved we would chalk them up to being immature or mentally ill. So there's nothing in this religion that is compelling.

Like others have pointed out. If it weren't for the fact that you are clinging to one last ancient religious myth you'd be an atheist. You're already 99% atheist as it is. You only need to recognize the fallacy of one more myth and you'll be home free.

[For_The_Kingdom]

No. On this forum you are not permitted to talk about other members.

Lack of reading comprehension. SMH.

Everything I have offered has nothing at all to do with me. I could have never existed and all of the arguments I have given would still be true.

My arguments do not depend on my existence. Neither are they just my opinions. They are demonstrable facts.

Followed by more lack of reading comprehension.

All you've done here is demonstrate your total inability to comprehend the point I just made.

I understood exactly what you said. My point was, if God doesn't convince you, and I don't convince you, then it is apparent that no amount of evidence would convince you.

Or did you not follow?

If you could present information that hasn't already been presented via Yahweh in the OT and Jesus in the NT then you would need to add additional information that neither Yahweh nor Jesus were aware of. That would indeed make you quite special sir.

First of all, I don't buy the premise...but for arguments sake; ok, it would be a difficult task, but I am up for the challenge.

Not only this but if you succeeded where both Yahweh and Jesus had failed then you would necessarily be a superior communicate and teacher to both Jesus and Yahweh. Surely you can see why that would make absolutely no sense at all. We can't have you succeeding at things that Jesus and Yahweh had failed at. This not only applies to you, but it applies to evangelism as a whole. This is why evangelism is a contradiction. It requires that mere mortal humans surpassed both Yahweh and Jesus in their ability to communicate and convince other humans who Yahweh and Jesus were unable to convince on their own.

Well, we can agree/disagree about whether or not they failed. You see, in my opinion; it isn't about "convincing evidence". It is about the systematic rejection of God, regardless of "presented" evidence..because some people simply don't like the idea of "God". Plain and simple.

But what is your response? You simply say, "I guess some people just won't believe regardless of what is presented to them."

But you haven't presented anything compelling.

I will take it step by step with you...one soul at a time. PM so we can talk.

And we know that Jesus had no clue what he was talking about.

Watch how you talk about my Lord and Savior, sir.

And the ancient fables of Yahweh are not the least bit compelling. If anyone behaved the way that Yahweh behaved we would chalk them up to being immature or mentally ill. So there's nothing in this religion that is compelling.

Right back to the whole morality thing, are we? Ok, well, who is to say that the immature/mentally ill way isn't the way to go? Who decided this? You? Society? Who?

And is that the "right" way? Who is making all of these rules..these standards? And why are those standards the right way?

Like others have pointed out. If it weren't for the fact that you are clinging to one last ancient religious myth you'd be an atheist. You're already 99% atheist as it is. You only need to recognize the fallacy of one more myth and you'll be home free.

LOL. This whole "You believe in one more God than I do" is a common quip from atheists..and they think that they are making this grand of a point, when it is actually laughable.

Ok..so, if aliens invaded Earth and they scanned everyone on Earths bank account and they said "Whoever has less than 1,000,000 in their bank account will be executed".

And you are sitting there with 999,999 in your account..that $1 that you don't have makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it?

[Divine Insight]

I understood exactly what you said. My point was, if God doesn't convince you, and I don't convince you, then it is apparent that no amount of evidence would convince you.

Or did you not follow?

We can take you out of the equation entirely. If a God failed to convince me then it's already an inept God, or to be more correct, it's obviously a false fable of a God because no actual God could be that inept.

If you could present information that hasn't already been presented via Yahweh in the OT and Jesus in the NT then you would need to add additional information that neither Yahweh nor Jesus were aware of. That would indeed make you quite special sir.

First of all, I don't buy the premise...but for arguments sake; ok, it would be a difficult task, but I am up for the challenge.

You're up for the challenge of being a superior communicator than your God or Jesus?

All I can say is that you too must think your own God is quite inept.

Well, we can agree/disagree about whether or not they failed.

There can be no question that they have failed to convince me of their existence. That is a given since I don't believe they are anything more than myths and exaggerated superstition.

So there can be no argument about their failure to convince me. That's a given.

You see, in my opinion; it isn't about "convincing evidence". It is about the systematic rejection of God, regardless of "presented" evidence..because some people simply don't like the idea of "God". Plain and simple.

Well, this wouldn't apply to me because I would love nothing more than for a decent benevolent intelligent God to exist. So you are now suggesting scenarios that don't even apply to the situation at hand.

You are making up straw man scenarios.

I will take it step by step with you...one soul at a time. PM so we can talk.

I'm not going to PM you because you haven't yet demonstrated an ability to carry on a coherent conversation. Not only this but you have totally failed to realized that if Jesus and Yahweh could not convince me of their existence you most certainly could not succeed in that.

How do I know that? Because if you actually succeeded in doing that you would have demonstrated a superior ability to communicate and teach than either Yahweh or Jesus had possessed and that would already verify that they could not have been representative of any all-wise omnipotent omniscient God.

So there's no hope for you to succeed in surpassing Jesus and Yahweh. That's your pipe dream.

And we know that Jesus had no clue what he was talking about.

Watch how you talk about my Lord and Savior, sir.

Hey I'm just pointing out what the Gospels have Jesus saying. If you don't like it blame it on the authors of the Gospels. We know for a fact that Jesus didn't know what he was talking about. Jesus thought that God feeds the birds. We know that's not true. So the proof is in the pudding.

By the way, what do you think Jesus "saved" you from? Do you believe that some angry God was out to condemn you? And if so, do you believe that you deserve to be condemned? I'm not sure if I'm comfortable talking to someone who deserves to be condemned. What did you do to deserve to be condemned if I may ask?

And the ancient fables of Yahweh are not the least bit compelling. If anyone behaved the way that Yahweh behaved we would chalk them up to being immature or mentally ill. So there's nothing in this religion that is compelling.

Right back to the whole morality thing, are we? Ok, well, who is to say that the immature/mentally ill way isn't the way to go? Who decided this? You? Society? Who?

I didn't mention morality at all. I suggested immaturity and mental illness.

Apparently you have created an imaginary debate opponent to talk with. I wish you the best of luck in your debate with that imaginary person.

LOL. This whole "You believe in one more God than I do" is a common quip from atheists..and they think that they are making this grand of a point, when it is actually laughable.

Ok..so, if aliens invaded Earth and they scanned everyone on Earths bank account and they said "Whoever has less than 1,000,000 in their bank account will be executed".

And you are sitting there with 999,999 in your account..that $1 that you don't have makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it?

And just think of how evil those aliens would need to be to be killing people based on how much money they have in their account.

Apparently your entire belief system is based on your belief that some evil angry God is out to condemn you and that your only escape from this horrible fate is to believe in Jesus.

I really need to ask you how that even makes any sense?

No decent God would have any reason to condemn me. Only an evil demon would do something that horrific and unjustified.

Apparently you believe that God is a horrible evil demon. Why else would you believe that you need to be saved from damnation? What was it that you had done that was so horrible?

[For_The_Kingdom]

[Replying to post 119 by Divine Insight]

Hey, you can have the last word, my man. It is your eternity, not mines. See ya around