Evidence that the biblical Yahweh is God

StuartJ · Post by **StuartJ** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:50 pm

bjs asked:

Great! Which of those topic were you hoping to debate, and why didnâ€™t you bring them up in the opening post?

Here's one of them right here:

What evidence of any sort whatsoever can be presented to demonstrate that the biblical Yahweh is God?

postroad · Post by **postroad** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:49 am

[Replying to post 29 by Elijah John]
Is God alone without creator?

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:29 am

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 29 by Elijah John]
Is God alone without creator?

By definition, yes. And according to Psalm 100.3, YHVH is God, the Creator.

postroad · Post by **postroad** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:21 pm

Elijah John wrote:
postroad wrote: [Replying to post 29 by Elijah John]
Is God alone without creator?
By definition, yes. And according to Psalm 100.3, YHVH is God, the Creator.

Then the heavenly realms and inhabitants are as much a created reality as our own.

There substance and nature is not of the same nature as God's.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:42 pm

postroad wrote:
Elijah John wrote:
postroad wrote: [Replying to post 29 by Elijah John]
Is God alone without creator?
By definition, yes. And according to Psalm 100.3, YHVH is God, the Creator.
Then the heavenly realms and inhabitants are as much a created reality as our own.

There substance and nature is not of the same nature as God's.

What's that have to do with whether YHVH is God?

postroad · Post by **postroad** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:57 pm

[Replying to post 32 by postroad]

It's a Christian concept that humanity needs to be conformed to some standard of perfection worthy of being acceptable to God.

It seems that God's requirements demand he reproduce himself. Something not possible even for himself.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:31 pm

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 32 by postroad]

It's a Christian concept that humanity needs to be conformed to some standard of perfection worthy of being acceptable to God.

It seems that God's requirements demand he reproduce himself. Something not possible even for himself.

Only in Trinitarian Christianity. Yahweh's religion is orignally Judaism, and the notion of God reproducing Himself or incarnating Himself is anathema in Jewish thought.

postroad · Post by **postroad** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:39 pm

[Replying to post 35 by Elijah John]

Jesus himself asks for such an absolute equivalency as proof of his legitimacy.

Which begs the question. If it didn't happen, what obligation does the world have to believe his claims?

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 â€œMy prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are oneâ€” 23 I in them and you in meâ€”so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

Also.

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

StuartJ · Post by **StuartJ** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:11 am

What evidence of any sort whatsoever can be presented to demonstrate that the biblical Yahweh is God?

Two things only have EVER been presented:

1) The cult propaganda

2) The voices in the head

Neither of which comes even vaguely close to beginning to look like evidence that the biblical Yahweh is "God".

The idea of God was in the human mind thousands - perhaps hundreds of thousands - of years before anyone had imagined the biblical Yahweh.

Therefore, the biblical Yahweh is NOT "God".

The claim that Yahweh is "God" is false.

The immediate response to my proposition that the claim that Yahweh is NOT "God" should be to demonstrate that Yahweh IS "God".

Questioning my proposition demonstrates that the questioner does indeed have ZERO evidence that Yahweh is "God".

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:15 pm

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 35 by Elijah John]

Jesus himself asks for such an absolute equivalency as proof of his legitimacy.

Which begs the question. If it didn't happen, what obligation does the world have to believe his claims?

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Prays for All Believers
20 â€œMy prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are oneâ€” 23 I in them and you in meâ€”so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

Also.

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

So, are you saying one must believe that Jesus is YHVH Himself in order to believe his teachings?

Perhaps he only had a prophet's authority. Or spoke self-evident and self validating truth. (the Golden Rule etc.)

Now disputing the veracity of any given prophet is another matter.

Also, I'm still not seeing how any of the verses you cite demonstrate Jesus equivilancy to YHVH God. Except for maybe the passage from Revelation.

And for every "I AM" statement of Jesus, there seems to be a John 17.3, which clearly makes a distinction, not an equivelancy between God and Jesus.

And Paul in all of his apostolic salutations, characterizes ony the Father as God.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:20 pm

[Replying to post 37 by StuartJ]

I've offered the evidence of comparison. That the Jewish notion of God was far ahead of their neighbors.

But it seems that is not evidence to you. So may I ask, what would be convincing evidence to you that YHVH is God?

The Bible also plainly states the fact, in Psalm 100.3 and elsewhere, in a way that the NT NEVER calls Jesus "God".

Now if you want to reject the testimony or the validity of the Bible fair enough. But I don't recall you clearly asking for extra-Biblical evidence that YHVH is God, though I tried to give you some.