The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

[Checkpoint]

This thread stems from the following exchange between myself and Pinseeker:

PinSeeker wrote:

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Checkpoint asked:

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

Pinseeker explained:

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.

That's one take from one school of thought.

Your take may be similar or be completely different.

Please share it here, and tell us why you hold that position.

[myth-one.com]

So Jesus is not present during the Millennium? If you are in the Millennium now, and the Millennium will end when Jesus returns, then Jesus is not with you now.

Where/how you come up with stuff is a great mystery.

I was directly quoting somebody using the name "PinSetter," who claims to have read the entire Bible.

We are in the Millennium now. It began at Pentecost, and will end when Jesus returns.

He is with me, just as he said:

"...and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." (Matthew 28:20)

So PinSetter claims that we are presently in the Millennium, and it will end when Jesus returns.

PinSetter then claims that Jesus has returned and is with him now.

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So is the Millennium over?

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God did not create things to die.

Sure He did. Here's one you might recall:

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

Oh well, who cares. Freedom of speech probably applies to the scriptures also.

In the past, debates under "Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma" gained or lost credibility by what was written in plain English in the Bible.

Oh for the good old days.

[myth-one.com]

And the ultimate point is, in the same way, in eternity, some folks will be eternally dead in their sin -- they will experience the second death -- but will they cease to exist? No. Will they be conscious beings? Yes. But they will be totally removed from God's grace and blessings -- in "outer darkness." This is their eternal punishment, their torment.

Let's evaluate that theology:

Three weeks after Andrea Yates murdered her five children, she told psychiatrist Philip Resnick she was failing as a mother and believed she had to kill the children to keep them from going to hell. "These were their innocent years. God would take them up." If she did not take action, the children would be destined for eternal damnation. "They did a lot of silly stuff and didn't obey. They did things God didn't like."

At age seven, the eldest child was nearing the "age of accountability." This is the age after which many Christians believe a child must accept Jesus Christ as their Savior to avoid everlasting torment in hell.

In their innocent years, implied none of her children were sufficiently old or educated to recognize sinful actions. That is, they had no law. If they were to die before ever knowingly committing a sin, it is taught that their "souls" go immediately to heaven and live with God for eternity, thus avoiding the everlasting torment of hell.

Millions of people, Christian or otherwise, live in fear of themselves or their loved ones suffering eternity in hell!

On a Public Broadcasting System television documentary regarding religion, one philosopher made a statement concerning Christianity, "Would it not be better if the unsaved simply died?"

Guess what? That is exactly what happens as written in the Bible. It is called the "second death." The second death awaits the unsaved. Unsaved humans who are cast into hell die their second death!

Here is a philosopher who may have a religion, or may be an atheist, but he sees the flaw in widespread Christian theology.

Today's Christianity is a religion based on fear and worry!

That is why the Bible prophesies that the church will fail in spreading the gospel to all the nations.

The root cause of this failure is the false belief in mankind's immortality.

Immortality is the reward of the saved, not something man possesses as a birthright.

The saved shall inherit everlasting life.

The unsaved die.

The wages of sin is death, and death lasts forever.

Duh.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 197 by PinSeeker]

nd the ultimate point is, in the same way, in eternity, some folks will be eternally dead in their sin -- they will experience the second death -- but will they cease to exist? No. Will they be conscious beings? Yes. But they will be totally removed from God's grace and blessings -- in "outer darkness." This is their eternal punishment, their torment.

This thread has, for me, been an interesting one.

I am here observing how you, Pinseeker, are responding to what other posters are saying.

On two separate themes, which are: the millennium, present or future, and death, what it is and what it isn't.

I am here as part of your audience, sometimes cheering for you, and sometimes booing at you, as it were.

I am loath to join in, whether I am for or against.

I might do so some day.

In the meantime I say to all of you, defend your faith!.

Jude 3

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to Gods holy people.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 197 by PinSeeker]

nd the ultimate point is, in the same way, in eternity, some folks will be eternally dead in their sin -- they will experience the second death -- but will they cease to exist? No. Will they be conscious beings? Yes. But they will be totally removed from God's grace and blessings -- in "outer darkness." This is their eternal punishment, their torment.

This thread has, for me, been an interesting one.

I am here observing how you, Pinseeker, are responding to what other posters are saying.

On two separate themes, which are: the millennium, present or future, and death, what it is and what it isn't.

I am here as part of your audience, sometimes cheering for you, and sometimes booing at you, as it were.

I am loath to join in, whether I am for or against.

I might do so some day.

In the meantime I say to all of you, defend your faith!.

Jude 3

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to Gods holy people.

If you are a Christian and are content that your God created a system whereby the vast majority of mankind will burn in hellfire for eternity, then stop reading this. But in all fairness, please remove all references that "God is love" from your Bibles! Then continue living in worry and fear regarding the salvation of your family and friends. On the other hand, if you want to be courageous and accomplish something truly worthwhile in your life, read the Bible and discover the truth:

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:32)

Preventing nonbelievers from becoming believers is Satan's main goal. He implanted the immortal soul myth in humans through his lie that "Ye shall not surely die" to negate the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Untold billions burning alive in hellfire for eternity is definitely not good news. The concept that God loves us while planning eternal torture for the majority, scares many people into "believing" in Jesus as an insurance policy, while driving the majority away.

[PinSeeker]

And the ultimate point is, in the same way, in eternity, some folks will be eternally dead in their sin -- they will experience the second death -- but will they cease to exist? No. Will they be conscious beings? Yes. But they will be totally removed from God's grace and blessings -- in "outer darkness." This is their eternal punishment, their torment.

Let's evaluate that theology:

I say don't. You've already proven your "prowess" at that...

[PinSeeker]

So Jesus is not present during the Millennium? If you are in the Millennium now, and the Millennium will end when Jesus returns, then Jesus is not with you now.

Where/how you come up with stuff is a great mystery.

I was directly quoting somebody using the name "PinSetter," who claims to have read the entire Bible.

Who's "PinSetter"? Don't know, um, him..? her..?

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 197 by PinSeeker]

Are you suggesting the nephesh in the sea were not fishes in Genesis 1:20?

GENESIS 1:20

And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living souls - Darby Bible Translation

Are you suggesting that nephesh (English SOUL) in the bible does not apply to fish and birds? Is that what you are trying to say? Are you suggesting that (nephesh) SOULS are not physical flesh and blood creatures in scripture?

Not in those particular contexts (Genesis, Leviticus), no.

[PinSeeker]

This thread has, for me, been an interesting one.

Hoo, boy. Me, too, man. Me, too.

I am here observing how you, Pinseeker, are responding to what other posters are saying. On two separate themes, which are: the millennium, present or future, and death, what it is and what it isn't.

Just two? Seems like about 8. Or 36. Or 73. These folks are all over the place...

Ehhhh, I'm just havin' a little fun. I mean, it's good for the... soul. (See what I did there?) What else can you do, right? Sorry, fellas. Didn't mean to rile you all up.

Well... maybe I did with myth-one... But with him, I didn't have to try very hard at all...

[myth-one.com]

And the ultimate point is, in the same way, in eternity, some folks will be eternally dead in their sin -- they will experience the second death -- but will they cease to exist? No. Will they be conscious beings? Yes. But they will be totally removed from God's grace and blessings -- in "outer darkness." This is their eternal punishment, their torment.

Let's evaluate that theology:

I say don't. You've already proven your "prowess" at that...

Preventing nonbelievers from becoming believers is Satan's main goal. He implanted the immortal soul myth in humans through his lie that "Ye shall not surely die" to negate the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Untold billions suffering eternal torment is definitely not the good news.

While the concept that God loves us while planning eternal torture for the majority, scares many people into "believing" in Jesus as an insurance policy, it drives the majority away.

As we near the time of the end, knowledge will increase and people will wise up to that fraudulent teaching:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. (Daniel 12:4)

If you are a Christian and are content that your God created a system whereby the vast majority of mankind will be tormented for ever and ever every second of every day -- then I feel very sorry for you.

I'm free from that garbage.

But you're having a lot of fun with it.

Congratulations.

Enjoy your fun.

[tam]

Peace to you,

The separation of the sheep and the goats occurs at the beginning of the thousand years, when Christ returns...

I, for one, am well aware that's your take on it, Tam.

I cannot take credit for it, dear pinseeker. This is what I have learned from my Lord.

I disagree. What Jesus says in Matthew 25 is very clear. The separation of the sheep and the goats and the Judgment are one and the same event.

Yes, you have said this already. What you have not done is address the content of my post (this one or the preceding posts on this matter). You are under absolutely no obligation to do so of course, but unless you do, there is not much for me to add, except to refer you back to the content of those posts.

This kind of brings us full circle. We are in the Millennium now.

We are not.


For all the reasons already stated.


Including the fact that Paul makes it clear that the resurrection of those who belong to Christ occurs at His coming.


For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him 1 Corinth 15:22-23

It began at Pentecost, and will end when Jesus returns.

The above quote states that it will begin when Christ returns.

Then the Judgment and the separation, and then... well, eternity.

Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24



There is no judgment for Christians.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy