The Millennium, the 1000 years of Revelation 20...

[Checkpoint]

This thread stems from the following exchange between myself and Pinseeker:

PinSeeker wrote:

The millennium of Revelation 20 is not a future event. It was when Jeremiah prophesied, obviously, but is not anymore. Or, to be more exacting, it's no longer merely a future event.

Checkpoint asked:

Then why do so many believers think of it as yet future only?

Pinseeker explained:

For at least two reasons, I think:

1. A basic misunderstanding of Revelation as a whole, and the Millennium of chapter 20 included.

2. Many believers (primarily western believers) have bought into the heresy of the "rapture," which came about in the early 19th century. It's not that they are heretics, it's just that that's all they've ever been exposed to.

That's one take from one school of thought.

Your take may be similar or be completely different.

Please share it here, and tell us why you hold that position.

[JehovahsWitness]

Two beings.

The spiritual bodied Word and the natural bodied Jesus.

Two separate intelligent beings? Which one of the two said he existed before Abraham ?

JOHN 8:57,58

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?� 58“Truly, truly, I tell you,� Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!"

The physical man Jesus came into existence a little over two thousand years ago.

So if Jesus came into existence in the first century, in what sense did he exist before Abraham? (Abraham was born 15 centuries BEFORE the man Jesus). What did the man Jesus mean by his words above?

[JehovahsWitness]

JOHN 1:14

The Word became flesh

Yes, the Word was "made or became" flesh.

During that time, the Word still existed as a spiritual being...

Where did he exist as a spiritual being? In heaven ?

What do you mean The Word became flesh? Do you mean The Word became a physical flesh and blood human being?





JW

[myth-one.com]

Two beings.

The spiritual bodied Word and the natural bodied Jesus.

Two separate intelligent beings? Which one of the two said he existed before Abraham ?

JOHN 8:57,58

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?� 58“Truly, truly, I tell you,� Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!"

The physical man Jesus came into existence a little over two thousand years ago.

So if Jesus came into existence in the first century, in what sense did he exist before Abraham? (Abraham was born 15 centuries BEFORE the man Jesus). What did the man Jesus mean by his words above?

Man cannot understand the spiritual world -- so I don't really know.

But, if Jesus knew that He "was" prior to Abraham, then there must have existed some cognitive connection between Him and whom He was made from.

Jesus certainly was born innately knowing what, when, and how to complete His mission to become the mediator between God and man.

Part of that knowledge was probably how He came to be a man.

[myth-one.com]

JOHN 1:14

The Word became flesh

Yes, the Word was "made or became" flesh.

During that time, the Word still existed as a spiritual being...

Where did he exist as a spiritual being? In heaven ?

God is omnipresent. So the Word exists everywhere.

Do I understand that?

No, not yet!

What do you mean The Word became flesh? Do you mean The Word became a physical flesh and blood human being?

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . .

Other translations use the word "became":

And the Word became flesh,

Others identify the Word as Christ in Parenthesis:

And the Word (Christ) became flesh,

But however it's described, yes, Jesus was a physical flesh and blood human being.

[onewithhim]

So our one mediator between God and men is?

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

But you said that only the Word exists today. And didn't you say that "the man Jesus Christ" is the only mediator? How can he be the mediator if he does not exist?

[myth-one.com]

So our one mediator between God and men is?

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

But you said that only the Word exists today. And didn't you say that "the man Jesus Christ" is the only mediator? How can he be the mediator if he does not exist?

The mediation has been completed.

The New Covenant has replaced the original covenant.

The wages of sin is still death, but we can now believe in Jesus and accept His gift of everlasting spiritual life.

Thus, the flaw in the original covenant has been fixed:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

[JehovahsWitness]

Two beings.

The spiritual bodied Word and the natural bodied Jesus.

But, if Jesus knew that He "was" prior to Abraham, then there must have existed some cognitive connection between Him and whom He was made from.

But Jesus didn't say he "knew" before Abraham, He didn't say someone INFORMED HIM about Abraham, or passed on some "cognitive information" about Abraham he (the flesh and blood human Jesus) said he existed beforeAbraham (he was before Abraham) ... How can that be?

JOHN 17:5

Father, glorify me in your presence with that glory I had with you before the world existed.

[JehovahsWitness]

But however it's described, yes, Jesus was a physical flesh and blood human being.

Did The Word become a flesh and blood human being? Is that what you are saying?

Two beings.

The spiritual bodied Word and the natural bodied Jesus.

[Checkpoint]

So our one mediator between God and men is?

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

But you said that only the Word exists today. And didn't you say that "the man Jesus Christ" is the only mediator? How can he be the mediator if he does not exist?

The mediation has been completed.

The New Covenant has replaced the original covenant.

The wages of sin is still death, but we can now believe in Jesus and accept His gift of everlasting spiritual life.

Thus, the flaw in the original covenant has been fixed:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (Hebrews 8:6-7)

Your post says what it says, to seemingly avoid what you said earlier about only one existing now, the Word.

The man Christ Jesus continues to sit at the right hand of his Father, mediating on the throne of grace, still existing as Jesus Christ.

One of his many names is the Word of God.

One person, alive forever, in one resurrected body, which he said was "flesh and bones".

[myth-one.com]

But however it's described, yes, Jesus was a physical flesh and blood human being.

Did The Word become a flesh and blood human being? Is that what you are saying?

I'm saying that's what the scriptures state.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

So the Word is eternal.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . .

God designed a plan to fix the fault in the original (now the old) testament between God and man.

That fault was that no man had ever lived a sinless life and qualified to become an heir to everlasting life.

So Jesus (the Word made flesh) was born into the human world, lived a sinless life, and offered His reward or inheritance for doing so to those sinners who believe in Him as their Savior.

The Word could not do what Jesus did directly as He cannot die. Death was required for the plan to succeed.

Thus somehow the Word was made (or became) flesh as Jesus.

Jesus was a temporal human -- the Word existed through it all as an immortal Spirit.

Jesus no longer exists as a man. There is no reason to do so any longer!