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Replying to post 339 by marco]
RightReason wrote:
But their churches aren’t the Church established by Jesus Christ.
Yes I know. I was reflecting their view, not mine.
It isn’t really opinion/view. It is a matter of historical record.
it is written that other religious denominations have no use for infallibility, they seem to employ it far more regularly than our Pontiffs.
Ha, ha, ha . . . yes, that does seem to be true, doesn’t it? And how ironic to insist one’s church is right when one doesn’t even believe his church is free from error. That would be relying on the wisdom of man.
RightReason wrote:
Why would anyone trust a Christian church that didn’t even pop up until the 1900’s?
Yet many do - such is human nature.
Yes, I am simply asking people to take a step back, use their reason, and follow the logic as well as historical fact. Reason is also part of human nature and often people can be shown their mistakes and make corrections.
RightReason wrote:
Why would anyone insist they are getting it right if they don’t even believe their church is free from teaching error?
I suspect you're asking rhetorically but can I please get a guess? Because they have personal access to Jesus, as Jesus said they could have.. which I feel was a bit rash of him since his generosity is easily abused. Now had he instead said pointedly: "Go to hell" we should solve many of our problems with this OP from one simple statement. But no - indulgent as ever!
We do have personal access to Jesus, and always have, but that doesn’t negate the need for the Church. That isn’t what He said. Ever. Even prior to the incarnation God used people as His spokesperson. He communicated to the Israelites thru Moses. Moses had authority and they were to do as he said because what he said came from God. So, why do/would people have such are hard time understanding we are expected to listen to the Church? It's God's desire.
If the Israelites wanted to know what to do, they had to rely on Moses. Sure, it could have been difficult for some. Many probably thought who the heck is Moses? Why does he think he as a direct line from God? He isn't even a very good public speaker and have you seen the temper on that guy? I'm holier than he is. If God wants me to do something, I need to hear it from Him.
Little Marco did his best to memorise the entire Catechism. On reflection now I suppose my bearded teacher was trying to give us a preview of hell by the way she ran her religious class. I now have a very good idea of hell but I think love and mercy were not allowed into our class. At least I never saw them.
Such a shame. Because of that, it appears you did not actually learn about the Church or God. As Bishop Fulton Sheen (soon to be Saint) has aptly said (paraphrased) – I don’t believe there are 100 people who actually hate the Catholic Church. I thing there are thousands that hate what they think the Church teaches or stands for, but it would be impossible to find 100 people who know the Church and hate her.
Do we HAVE to believe in some quotes? I think human wisdom is best dispensed through aphorisms be they from Wilde or Waugh, from Confucius or Christ
Or Chesterton?
but what we extract is rough ore; what we make of it can shine like gold or remain muddy.
But when what we make does shine like gold, is that not evidence that such is beauty and Truth?
Truth can be accepted or rejected. It can be used for good or evil, but that doesn't not mean it doesn't exist or should not be proclaimed!
