Tiberius and Jesus (SallyF)

[Willum]

It is almost a secret that Rome, even in the ages of its Kings used religion as a weapon of subjugation of its conquered peoples. Though it isn't surprising, a race as accomplished at physical, should be expected to have been just as sophisticated at psychological warfare.

Proof of this tactic is found in hybrid deities, Sulis-Minerva. When they conquered, the Romans told the losers: Our gods are your gods, Thor is the same a Heracles, Sulis is Minerva, Zeus is Jupiter, and so on.
Oh, and by the way, the gods say we rule, that is why they let us conquer you...

One needs to ask if this technique suddenly stopped when Rome rolled over Jerusalem?
Did they see the light in 63 BCE, and recognize the wonder of Yahweh?
No.
They continued their old tricks, improving them in much the same way they improved other tactics. I personally believe that they did too good a job, perfected religion to the point where it fooled most of the people most of the time, and those who were unaware it was a ruse, started converting people.

Another thing to note about the Caesars, is that after Augustus, they were divine (even Caesar Julius was a demi-god).

So the stage is set.
Now we need to move on to some assumptions.
The Dead Sea Scrolls. They have been dated to some time before 70 CE. If we believe they were written AFTER Jesus, instead of containing magic prophesies, then we can start making cool and logical assumptions.

The coolest is that the Prophecies of Isaiah about the savior of the Jews describe Caesar Augustus and Tiberius with perfect accuracy.

viewtopic.php?t=30410

Now why would they do that?
If Rome intended to use religion to continue to usurp a rebelling Judea...

I suspect Tiberius himself had a hand in this... or his flatterers/defamers.
1. Both Tiberius and Jesus are demi-gods. Spirit brothers if you will.
2. Jesus received the same things Tiberius loved as his nativity presents - gold, frankincense and myrrh - aphrodisiacs.
3. Jesus supported his spirit brother in his most important activities... collecting taxes, maintaining government and quelling popular uprising.
Incidentally, the coins Caesar wanted to collect, were graven images of foreign gods,proclaiming his divinity... blasphemous even to touch, but well, Jesus said pay them... paradoxically.

Matthew 22:21 "Render to [the god] Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's [which was nothing]."

1 Peter 2:13-14"Be willing to serve the people who have authority[a] in this world. Do this for the Lord. Obey the king, the highest authority. 14 And obey the leaders who are sent by the king. They are sent to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do good."

and

Matthew 7:12 English Standard Version 12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

Quite a coincidence, no? That the only practical applications of Jesus' works favored a pagan Rome, and all the spiritual advice, can't be proven!!

We also have some interesting word games that support the theory...
Yahweh, is derived from Yahu, allegedly. It doesn't make much sense, but YHVH could be pronounced that way.
But let's look at Jove. In Latin IOVE, pronounced according to Latin rules Ye ho vah, or Ee o way. How does that happen?
Word-games, I often point out, can't prove a god, but they certainly do prove word-games.

Let's look at Jesus, allegedly derived from Joshua, or Iosua. It should be Latinized Iosueous, right? Yet it comes up Jesus...
Well what does Jesus mean in Latin, and even Greek? The sounds now, not the etymology. Well Jesus --> Iosus, or Io Zeus. Which means, "Hail Zeus."

Why would they pick of all the Canaan gods, Yahu, easily conflated with Jove, and Jesus, so easily (mis?)construed as Hail Zeus.

There are jokes and lies in the Bible as well. God showed Moses his rear end. That's right God mooned Moses, in one of the most solemn moments in the OT. Oh sure there is a great deal of Biblical austerity there in the , but let yourself be a sarcastic Greek for a moment...

Then there is the history of the victorious Hebrew... yeah, that didn't happen. So there was a joke between the historically-educated and the Biblically educated. It carries on today...
Many really, the entire Flood story was a Greek comedy, one that fundamentalist are still somehow able to treat as a miraculous holy story... instead of a bedtime fable. Imagine the conversation - Greeks telling jokes about this funny play they'd seen with all the animals getting onto an ark, and the Hebrew just NOT seeing the joke.

As a final point, Jesus WOULD have been the savior of Judea if they had done what he told them: Payed their taxes, obeyed Roman law and kept the peace. As it is, they rebelled and were decimated.

So, this approach has strengths and weaknesses, but keeping in mind that if the Bible is false, it all must be... can anyone add or detract from this attachment of what may be disparate facts?

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 2 by SallyF]

When did Jove-ah come to power? Tricky question. For that Biblical answer, dont you know he was the one true god, with no others existing since the Garden of Eden. In history, there are two versions, you can check Wiki for one, and the other is he was the Canaan god, Yahu, (YHVH). To derive the rest, just read about the Seleucid Empire.
When did they both become Jove? That would be coincidentally after Rome invaded.

It is noteworthy that, Herod was considered a pretender, even though he made great efforts in the name of his native peoples.
I dont think they were fooled... but if only what he did to fool them survived in history books.

The Jews were Canaanites.

Somewhere in the murky 'intertestamental" period, the original Canaanite Elohim ("God") were superseded by the newer Jehovah/Yahweh.

We have numerous clues and hints that Yahweh is a Yahweh come lately - from the two contradictory creation myths - where Yahweh comes in later and re-creates everything in a different order, to the two flood myths, to the defrocking of Aaron, and many more.

Most of the Dead Sea Scrolls are from the Herodian period.

And:

The Roman"Jewish Treaty was an agreement made between Judas Maccabeus and the Roman Republic in 161 BC according to 1 Maccabees 8:17-20 and Josephus. It was the first recorded contact between the Jewish people and the Romans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman%E2% ... ish_Treaty

Plenty of time for a spot of syncretisation and to install a King of the Jews with a pro-Roman god.

And it is most important to note that the OT writings as we now have the do NOT promote Jove-Ah as the capital G "God of the entire Universe and beyond.

The propagandist just have the biblical deity is just an ethnic patron deity.

Common sense, if nothing else, would counsel against the heathens on the frontier of the Egyptian, and then the Assyrian, and then the Babylonian, and then the Persian and then Greek and then Roman Empires declaring that their god was the one true God.

They didn't.

The mythological Jove-Ah had to wait for quite some centuries before his "son" became fashionable among Roman women of high status before Christians could really push that idea and get away with it.

It's a false claim anyway.

If there is "God", it's NOT the biblical Yahweh.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 11 by SallyF]


It isnt murky at all!
It is buried in embarrassment.
Pompeii the Great conquered Jerusalem and deposed the Canaan or Seleucid Empire of the Sadducee, and secretly replaced them with the Pharisee.

Nobody, especially the Jews like to have this pointed out.

But just lookup the Seleucid Empire.