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Replying to post 10 by Diagoras]
No, I do not pretend to speak for everyone who self identifies as a Christian but I am willing to fill in some details of my theology once I know someone is interested.... I will write in a didactic manner as if I thought all my theology was proven because I get scolded for not believing in my own theology if I don't but a lot of this detail rests upon logical progressions of events stemming from the original premise, details which I believe but cannot say that I strictly got them from the Holy Spirit.
Diagoras wrote:
Taken at face value, this seems to suggest that:
A) all sins are equal (a disservice to god)
An
'ultimate disvalue' seems to be a quite a bit stronger than disservice, eh? This definition is culled from the verses like:
Psalm 34:16 But the face of the LORD is against those who do evil, to sever their memory from the earth.
Diagoras wrote:B) if you sin while an elect (which I assume means believer in god?) then Christ gets put on the cross. Im not sure whether thats meant to be figurative?
The meaning of Elect:
We enter into HIS promise and became HIS elect by accepting YHWH's claims to be our creator GOD and that salvation from sin was only found in HIS Son because we desired the heavenly marriage enough to commit without proof but by faith, that is an unproven hope, that HE was telling the truth and heaven was possible. We had to make these decisions by our free will before any taint of sin enslaved us to evil.
To focus more tightly on the meaning of believer, I emphasize that part of belief that is faith, not proof or "
I will believe it when I see it!"
The Son was chosen to be the slain lamb whose blood caused the angel of death to pass over HIS chosen (
elect means
chosen) people before the foundation of the world. So yes, His death on the cross was the necessary response to even one sin by even one of his elect.
Diagoras wrote:C) if you are not an elect, then any sin results in banishment to the eternal outer darkness.
The meaning of Non-elect:
To be non-elect means that you were not chosen to be HIS Bride in the heavenly state. Since everyone who wanted to be HIS Bride accepted HIS proposal of marriage, this leaves only those who rejected HIS proposal as being the people passed over for marriage. HE did not force anyone into marriage (a rape) without their consent.
But being non-elect impies more than that. Before we chose where to put our faith, in HIM or without HIM, we fully understood the consequences of each option. We knew that to reject HIM as GOD would make us sinners in danger of eternal death in hell. To reject HIM therefore meant that we were putting our faith in HIS being a liar (about heaven and hell, righteousness and evil) and a false god motivated by evil desires for illicit worship and by megalomania.
Since choosing to be evil instantly enslaves the person to the addictive quality of sinfulness, they become evil and cannot save themselves from their evil which now imbues their every decision, suppressing their free will. Add to that that their decison to reject GOD totally forever puts them outside of HIS loving grace and mercy forever and they became eternally evil. When faced with this option when making their choice some people choose to first ensure their safety from hell by accepting YHWH's authority over them and putting themselves by a decison of faith under HIS offer of salvation from all sin and only then did they rebel against HIM and choose to be evil in HIS sight. Since they can always be brought back to their first free will decision to follow HIM, they are the sinful elect and can be redeemed and restored to HIM, that is, their evil is temporary.
But some were so committed to their faith belief that HE was a false god and a liar that they scorned the rebellious elect for NOT being truly committed to their freedom from HIM so they chose to go to hell if HE should ever prove HE was GOD rather than take the chance on being HIS Bride which they believed perfectly to be impossible. These commitments make up the unforgivable sin and makes their end in hell an absolute necessity...if YHWH
IS GOD.
Diagoras wrote:Im also not clear where repentance comes in. Is that available to everyone, or only elects?
Repentance is a gift from GOD to the elect sinner as part of the salvation process, the process of freeing us from the addictive qualities of evil by our rebirth then training us in righteousness so we are heaven ready, ie sanctified as described in
Heb 12:5-11, (a bit long this place). Thus depending on the response of the elect person to these sufferings and to their commitment to the pleasures and profits of sin we have graduations of suffering between people. As outside of HIS gifts of grace and mercy by their own free will decision to repudiate HIM no matter what the consequences, the non-elect do not receive this gift.
The outer darkness has no biblical definition; it is only mentioned...but since
a little leaven leavens the whole lump is a metaphor for a little sin in a small part absolutely corrupting the whole, I am led to consider that the place where the eternal evil ones are banished cannot be in anyway a part of our created reality wherein we live in the heavenly state of marriage. When I consider that unless it is infinite, our created reality, our universe, must have an edge, I also consider that the outer darkness must be beyond that edge where there is no place or anything that was created except those who chose to be eternally evil. Thus there is probably no gradation of the sufferings of the non-elect in hell.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
