God's violent ways

[OnceConvinced]

The god of the bible tends do deal with sin and evil in very violent ways. Ie, wiping out cities, sending floods, ordering violent deaths, ordering the slaying of animals for sacrifices, sending curses and plagues, etc.

Can you point out any instances in the bible where God deals with sin and evil in non-violent ways?

And I mean God here. Not Jesus.
And there are times God showed mercy and didn't deal with the sin and evil, sure. But when he did, were there non-violent methods used?

[Tcg]

Usually it is Christians who don’t accept them.

I'm not sure what evidence you could present to support this claim. As far as abortion, there is evidence that contradicts your unsupported claim:

• "In a survey released Monday that was sponsored by the pregnancy center support organization Care Net, researchers from the Christian research group LifeWay found that about 70 percent of women who had an abortion self-identified as Christians, while 43 percent say they attended a Christian church at least once per month or more at the time they aborted their child."
  
  https://www.christianpost.com/news/70-o ... finds.html

Of course, none of this has any bearing on the fact that the God presented in the Bible uses violence regularly. Now that your red herring has been shown invalid, I'd suggest a return to the topic.


Tcg

[Tcg]

It seems to me that all evil people die eventually.

All people die eventually. The fact that people you judge to be evil die proves absolutely nothing.


Tcg

[OnceConvinced]

I think it has, because if he can accept euthanasia and abortion, there should be no problem, if God ends life also. And if he doesn’t accept abortion and euthanasia, it would be interesting information and I would like to know why he doesn’t accept those. Nowadays most people seem to accept them. Usually it is Christians who don’t accept them.
.

I am one non-theist who doesn't like abortion. I apply the golden rule to this one. I wouldn't have wanted to be aborted, so don't abort someone else.

However I do sympathise with people in certain situations. eg rape victims or those who would possibly die if they went through with the birth.

As for Euthunasia I have no really strong opinions on that one, but wonder if I'd want someone to finish me off if I were in so much pain and couldn't express what I wanted.

It's not all black and white as much as bible believers would like us to think.

[OnceConvinced]

It seems to me that all evil people die eventually.

All people die eventually. The fact that people you judge to be evil die proves absolutely nothing.


Tcg

Evil people die but the evil continues. Satan continues to run rampant and has been for the last 6-7 thousands years apparantly. God has failed miserably to end his reign of terror.

1213, going by the bible one particular act of treachery by God springs to mind immediately. It happened when Jesus died on the cross.

"My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?"

God sent evil spirits to have negative effects on people. He made curses. He hardened people's hearts. He allowed Job's life to be completely ruined all to win a bet with Lucifer. That's not treacherous?

And back to the whole violence thing. Just the fact that God required a brutal slaying of an innocent being before he was willing to redeem people shows a very violent, bloodthirsty god. I wonder if the likes of Jehovah's Witness sees the horrible death of Jesus, ordained by God, as reasonable force?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 79 by 1213]

The reason why I don’t think God is treacherous, is that there is nothing to support that claim. There is simply no scripture that indicates God is treacherous.

How would you know? It has been repeatedly shown your knowledge of scripture is insufficient.
Maybe we should go down the road of you defining what is treacherous, and me calling out exactly in the Bible where is occurs.
I know the Bible well enough that I think I'll win.

If God kills someone, He is also the one who originally gave the life, so He has the right. Doctors don’t have the right, because they have not given the life.

That's great, with the assumption that such a thing exists.
HOWEVER it is observed that mommys' and daddys' give life, and there is nothing that shows God gives life.

Sorry, I have not seen any evidence for that [God allowing evil,]. It seems to me that all evil people die eventually.

Your God is allegedly all powerful. Everything that happens, he allows. If he wanted to waive the specious "free-will" argument and be omnipotent, he could, right? So...
It is observed everyone dies eventually.

So... good talking to you, but there aren't any counter arguments.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 79 by 1213]

If God kills someone, He is also the one who originally gave the life, so He has the right.

I find that sentiment quite abhorrent. It's alright to destroy things you have made if you are talking about objects like furniture, or cars or paintings and so on. But people are sentient beings and should not be regarded as nothing more than God's playthings with him being able to do what he likes with them.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 79 by 1213]

If God kills someone, He is also the one who originally gave the life, so He has the right.

I find that sentiment quite abhorrent. It's alright to destroy things you have made if you are talking about objects like furniture, or cars or paintings and so on. But people are sentient beings and should not be regarded as nothing more than God's playthings with him being able to do what he likes with them.

It occurs to me that if God were to kill someone, even under Judeo-Chrisitandom, He would be violating their freewill, therefore this is another dead-end for the statement that 'what God creates, he has the right to destroy.'

If he can do that, what is next?
Stopping people from eating fruit?
Having serendipity prevent human injustices?

It is a slippery slope.

[1213]

I'm not sure what evidence you could present to support this claim. As far as abortion, there is evidence that contradicts your unsupported claim:
…

I didn’t claim Christians don’t abort babies. I said, it is usually Christians (not all Christians) that are against abortion. I have not seen atheist group that is against abortion (against abortion = tries to prevent people to make abortions and wants that abortion would be illegal).

[1213]

…It's not all black and white as much as bible believers would like us to think.

Why it is so black and white when it is God who allegedly kills?

[1213]

…Evil people die but the evil continues. Satan continues to run rampant and has been for the last 6-7 thousands years apparantly. God has failed miserably to end his reign of terror.

Sorry, I don’t see any Biblical reason to believe that claim. According to the Bible, Satan can’t do anything without God allowing it, as the book of Job shows. Therefore, I would say the “rampant� is false. And also, to fail in something. one should have attempted to do a thing and then fail in it. God has not done something and then failed in it, at least not according to the Bible.

…1213, going by the bible one particular act of treachery by God springs to mind immediately. It happened when Jesus died on the cross.

"My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?"

If Jesus felt that God had forsaken him, it doesn’t mean God had done so. And as we can see in the Bible, God did not forsake Jesus, He raised Jesus from the death and therefore was not treacherous as I think your claims are.

…God sent evil spirits to have negative effects on people. He made curses. He hardened people's hearts. He allowed Job's life to be completely ruined all to win a bet with Lucifer. That's not treacherous?

Bible don’t say God made a bet. And when the hardening happens because God ends plague, I don’t think that is treacherous and evil. And evil spirits, God sent truth for the people and they rejected it and so got what they wanted. If you reject good spirit, truth, then you are left with evil, which is lack of good, and actually like emptiness or darkness, nothing.

…And back to the whole violence thing. Just the fact that God required a brutal slaying of an innocent being before he was willing to redeem people …

Bible tells Jesus forgave sins before his death; therefore I think that is also false claim.