God's violent ways

[OnceConvinced]

The god of the bible tends do deal with sin and evil in very violent ways. Ie, wiping out cities, sending floods, ordering violent deaths, ordering the slaying of animals for sacrifices, sending curses and plagues, etc.

Can you point out any instances in the bible where God deals with sin and evil in non-violent ways?

And I mean God here. Not Jesus.
And there are times God showed mercy and didn't deal with the sin and evil, sure. But when he did, were there non-violent methods used?

[1213]

…I find that sentiment quite abhorrent. It's alright to destroy things you have made if you are talking about objects like furniture, or cars or paintings and so on. But people are sentient beings and should not be regarded as nothing more than God's playthings with him being able to do what he likes with them.

I don’t think people are God’s plaything. And by what the Bible tells, God wants to give eternal life for righteous and unrighteous will not get that. I think that is good, because unrighteous people would make eternal life eternal suffering for all.

[Tcg]

I'm not sure what evidence you could present to support this claim. As far as abortion, there is evidence that contradicts your unsupported claim:
…

I didn’t claim Christians don’t abort babies. I said, it is usually Christians (not all Christians) that are against abortion.

The study I presented showed that 70% of the women in that study who got abortions self identified as Christians. That 70% were obviously not against abortion.

It may be that some Christians claim to be against abortion, but if one claims that while getting an abortion, that action proves it to be a false claim.


Tcg

[Difflugia]

Why it is so black and white when it is God who allegedly kills?

Because God is omniscient and omnipotent and we aren't.

Human beings have to decide between limited options by weighing outcomes about which we have imperfect knowledge, but God is encumbered by neither.

God can never use the phrase, "I wish I didn't have to do this." God never has to choose between the lesser of two evils. When God kills someone, it's because, out of the infinite possibilities open to God's absolute sovereignty over time and space, He has decided, in His infinite wisdom and compassion, that a dead person is what He most desires.

[Zzyzx]

.
Christian women praying that they don't get pregnant after unprotected sex have demonstrated the futility of prayer.

Non-Christians who oppose abortion can be wise enough to support sex education and birth control (options not available under some Christian doctrine).

[OnceConvinced]

…It's not all black and white as much as bible believers would like us to think.

Why it is so black and white when it is God who allegedly kills?

It's not necessarily black and white but when was the last time a human slaughtered an entire city including babies and animals?

We need to look at the killing on a case by case basis. For instance:

Ordering someone to be stoned to death for picking up sticks is immoral.
Ordering a bear to kill children for teasing someone is immoral.
Killing millions because they don't believe in you or worship you is immoral.
Kiling people for being gay is immoral.
Having an innocent man killed for the attrocities of someone else is immoral.
Sending someone to kill someone's family is immoral
Ordering blood sacrifices is immoral.

Those things all seem very black and white to me.

However some gray areas:

Killing someone to put them out of their misery.
Killing someone who is going to cuase the death of someone else. (that might include abortion)
Executions for perpertrators of serious crimes like murder.

[OnceConvinced]

…Evil people die but the evil continues. Satan continues to run rampant and has been for the last 6-7 thousands years apparantly. God has failed miserably to end his reign of terror.

Sorry, I don’t see any Biblical reason to believe that claim. According to the Bible, Satan can’t do anything without God allowing it, as the book of Job shows. Therefore, I would say the “rampant� is false. And also, to fail in something. one should have attempted to do a thing and then fail in it. God has not done something and then failed in it, at least not according to the Bible.

I go by what we see in reality and if I were a believer in God and the devil, I say it looks like God has given Satan free run of the place, just as he allowed him to wander the Garden of Eden. And the bible tales tell us how badly that went, don't they?

…1213, going by the bible one particular act of treachery by God springs to mind immediately. It happened when Jesus died on the cross.

"My god, my god, why hast thou forsaken me?"

If Jesus felt that God had forsaken him, it doesn’t mean God had done so.

Which means you can't put much stock in anything Jesus says or believes. If he was fallible here then he was most likely fallible everywhere else too.

And as we can see in the Bible, God did not forsake Jesus, He raised Jesus from the death and therefore was not treacherous as I think your claims are.

Jesus clearly expected to be rescued. Why would he believe he was going to be rescued if he wasn't?

His words of anguish shows me a very fallible man who wasn't getting his information from any god. Either that or God really did abandon him.

I once used to go along with the teaching that God could not be where sin is. So with all the sin of the world being in that place at that time, God couldn't be there. Of course that makes God a pretty feeble god then. Sin becomes like his kryptonite.
So God fled. The sin was too much for him.

…God sent evil spirits to have negative effects on people. He made curses. He hardened people's hearts. He allowed Job's life to be completely ruined all to win a bet with Lucifer. That's not treacherous?

Bible don’t say God made a bet.

No, he doesn't use those words but it was clearly a bet.

And when the hardening happens because God ends plague, I don’t think that is treacherous and evil.

Which is not what the bible says about the hardening of his heart. You've added that in.

Anyway, I consider sending a plague treacherous, sadistic and evil. The hardening of the heart is nothing compared to that.

…And back to the whole violence thing. Just the fact that God required a brutal slaying of an innocent being before he was willing to redeem people …

Bible tells Jesus forgave sins before his death; therefore I think that is also false claim.

I agree that going by the bible sin was able to be forgiven without a sacrifice.

So then that means Jesus's death on the cross was redundent wasn't it? God was quite capable of achieving what he set out to do without the need for a violent bloody sacrifice. But he chose the violent and bloody path anyway. That just makes it ten times worse. He ordered the brutal slaughter of his son instead of dealing with the problem of sin in a far less violent and sadistic way, a way that he was quite capable of utilising if he so wished.

[JehovahsWitness]

Having an innocent man killed for the attrocities of someone else is immoral.

Where did God ever do this?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 94 by OnceConvinced]

I appreciate your sharing you beliefs on what is or is not immoral (I too, like you share my beliefs with others, I call that evangelizing) but are you aware that not everyone will agree with you in what is or is not immoral?

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Willum]

[Replying to post 94 by OnceConvinced]

Yes those are certainly immoral and violent acts, I don't think there is any possible rational argument to the contrary.
If there is, I'd love to hear it.

There is not a sane human on the planet who would consider the least of what you mention to be in the least moral.

What theists don't understand, it seems is that might might make reality, but it does not make right.
God may kill Amorites and people playing pick-up sticks, but that does not make it right.
Anymore than Stalin killing entire villages because it is easier than relocating them.

God's horrible opinions about the insignificance of human life are just another 'person's' opinion about life.
Oh, wait, he does promise to save an insignificant fraction of us...

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 89 by 1213]

According to the Bible, Satan can’t do anything without God allowing it, as the book of Job shows.

That makes God complicit in the evil perpetrated by Satan. Are you sure this deity of yours is worthy of worship? By the way, I see the book of Job as another atrocity perpetrated by your God.