Palaces of worship

[Zzyzx]

.
In many cities and towns the most ornate and ostentatious buildings are churches / cathedrals / mosques / temples / or other places of worship.

Such buildings are intended to impress and/or send a message. Impress whom? Message whom? What message?

[Tcg]

Peace to you,

It is not about God. It is not about His Son. It is not about faith or truth or the spirit. The kind of worshipers the Father desires are those who worship in spirit and in truth.

I suspect all those who endeavor to build or visit such palaces would disagree with you.

See my first post on this thread.

I've already revealed its irrelevance.

Well that is the belief the 'palaces of worship' are designed to instill...

A relevant answer. The first.

Who are you to say they are wrong?

Why try and make this about me?

Because you are implying the practice is wrong.


Tcg

[OnceConvinced]

The disciples of Christ were impressed by the 'magnificent buildings' at the temple as well. But what did He say to them?

As [Jesus] was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!

Do you see all these great buildings? replied [Jesus]. Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

I wonder what Jesus would have thought of the temple Solomon created for God? I bet that temple would have put Vatican City to shame.

[OnceConvinced]

In many lands we simply rent a hall.

Where I come from many churches are held in school halls. I have been involved in such churches. One thing I have found they all have in common is they all have a goal to grow in numbers and purchase their own land to build their own church. I'm guessing JW churches are no different.

We view the people more important than the building

That has always been the case with churches I have attended too.

and and save money where we can for more important endeavours such as producing bibles and bible literature, financing bible educational work and disaster relief. We dont have unlimited funds so choices have to be made. There are no crosses, religious statues or idols on or inside our places of worship.

Really?

Then explain this:

https://ny.curbed.com/2017/8/31/1623290 ... ont-street

Quotes:

"In August 2016, the Jehovah Witnesses sold their iconic Watchtower building at 25-30 Columbia Heights for $340 million to developers" (I wonder how much of that went to the needy)

"Kushner Companies also purchased the massive, long-undeveloped site at 85 Jay Street in Dumbo for $345 million."

Seems to me that the JWs are no more righteous than any other Christian organisations when it comes to extravagance.

[JehovahsWitness]

In many lands we simply rent a hall.

Where I come from many churches are held in school halls. I have been involved in such churches. One thing I have found they all have in common is they all have a goal to grow in numbers and purchase their own land to build their own church. I'm guessing JW churches are no different.
.

No need to guess, you just need to ask. Renting is extremely rare in developped countries, but in some countires where land is expensive or properties hard to aquire, renting is indeed feasible. That Jehovahs Witnesses are currently undergoing extensive restructuring to maximize the use of our halls and minimize the need for new constructions. We have a common construction program that means even in the poorest countries our brothers and sisters can meet in kingdom halls that are comfortable and dignified.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[JehovahsWitness]

and and save money where we can for more important endeavours such as producing bibles and bible literature, financing bible educational work and disaster relief. We dont have unlimited funds so choices have to be made. There are no crosses, religious statues or idols on or inside our places of worship.

Really? Then explain this:
https://ny.curbed.com/2017/8/31/1623290 ... ont-street

Quotes:
"In August 2016, the Jehovah Witnesses sold their iconic Watchtower building at 25-30 Columbia Heights for $340 million to developers" ...

"Kushner Companies also purchased the massive, long-undeveloped site at 85 Jay Street in Dumbo for $345 million."

What would you like explained? Dumbo and other complexes are not churches they are office and production complexes. Was there a part of "financing bible educational work" that you were having trouble understanding? If so, please feel free to ask a specific question.

How much of that went to the needy?

• None probably. The sale of Columbia Heights was part of our project to move our world headquarters out of Brooklyn, New York, up state to Warwick. Like most people, we have to sell our first home if we want to move somewhere else . In short, to my knowledge the new complex was entirely or in part financed by the sale of the Brooklyn properties (including Columbia Heights)... if the money from Columbia was used for Dumbo that would have meant we just about broke even which sounds like keeping go a budget to me. I'm not privy to how funds are specifically channeled but I know we have seperate funds for disaster relief.

Seems to me that the JWs are no more righteous than any other Christian organisations when it comes to extravagance.

EXTRAVAGANT

lacking restraint in spending money or using resources.

I dont see anything "extravagant" in the above projects, if our past record is anything to go by, they were probably brought in on a budget. We dont waste money, and we dont spend money without restaint whether on a local, national or international level.


JW

[OnceConvinced]

Churches? Offices? What's the difference really? They are still buildings that belong to churches and can often be worth millions.

Many churches have offices, normally in the church buildings themselves. Really big denominations have head offices for a large number of their churches. Big money making enterprises.

Really, JW, how can you be critical of religious organsiations who have fancy churches when your own one has multi million dollar office buildings?

I would have a lot more respect for groups like the JWs if they weren't controlled by a corporate enterprise at the top who control everything below them while operating from multi million dollar buildings.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 36 by OnceConvinced]

I personally couldn't care less about what would gain your respect, if you don't like how Jehovahs Witnesses run things may I suggest you don't become one. As for being critical of church buildings that was your own point and I claim no ownership of it, I stated my points clearly on this subject:

I think the primary intent is to provide a place where the faithful can gather to worship God. Also, as has been mentioned for such places to bring glory and honor to God. Some attempt to do this by building magnificent Cathedrals and impressive structures, which is not entirely without merit since Solomons temple was reported to have been very impressive. (As one of Jehovahs Witnesses , for example, we are quite proud of our worldheadquarter bulding although its not a meeting place but a functional office building, which are however dedicated to Jehovah God). But a bulding's chief source of glory should be in the people and the worship conducted inside.

As far as criticisms I am critical of false teachings, waste of resources, a lack of proper priorities and corruption, none of which my organisation is guilty of. I am not critical of construction, corportate ownership or money which all have their uses.





JW

[Tcg]

As far as criticisms I am critical of false teachings, waste of resources, a lack of proper priorities and corruption, none of which my organisation is guilty of.

Alexis Nunez and others would disagree with your claim:

• Jehovahs Witnesses Found Guilty of Malice And Negligence: Victim Awarded $35 Million in Montana Lawsuit
  
  The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, together with the Christian Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses were found guilty of both negligence and malice in connection with the intentional failure to file police reports on behalf of plaintiff Alexis Nunez and two additional victims. A combined total of 35 million dollars was assessed following detailed instructions given to the jury by Judge James A. Manley.
  
  https://jwsurvey.org/child-abuse-2/jeho ... na-lawsuit

Any organization that covers up crime in this manner deserves no respect.

Tcg

[OnceConvinced]

I personally couldn't care less about what would gain your respect, if you don't like how Jehovahs Witnesses run things may I suggest you don't become one.

Don't worry. There's no way I'd become one. I'm yet to come across a JW that's a good advertisement for it.

I would never want to become part of such an elitist organisation. I could never in all good conscience brand all other versions of Christianity as false.

As far as criticisms I am critical of false teachings, waste of resources, a lack of proper priorities and corruption, none of which my organisation is guilty of.

And how can you be so sure of that? Are you involved in the overall leadership of the JW church? Have you attended every JW church around the world?

Is it really free of coruption? If I google things I will see many examples of JW corruption. Should we just flag them all away as nonsense?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 39 by OnceConvinced]

One doesnt have to know every member of an organisation to trust is not corrupt anymore than one has to interrogate every man to trust your wife is not an adultress. No organisation can ensure corrupt individuals cannot assocites with it but an organisation become corrupt when it it teaches, tolerates and encourages corruption which I am confident my religion does not do.

In any case, let us not deraille the thread, Jehovahs Witnesses are frugal in our use of funds and make wise choices when it comes to our places of worship. I feel I have made my point.


JW

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JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES , FINANCES and ... CHURCH LEADERSHIP