It's Beginning to Feel a Lot Like Mithras

[SallyF]

The Christian-Jewish propaganda does NOT say anything about celebrating the Divine Leader's birthday. We were only instructed to pretend to eat his flesh and drink his blood, for example.

I propose that Christianity has been a fraud from the very start.

Is stealing the birthdays of other supposed god-men part of the fraudulence …?

[SallyF]

1. Stonehenge, England

Stonehenge — one of the most famous archaeological sites in the world — is an arrangement of rocks carefully positioned on a barren ground in southern England. The megalith, which may have been a burial, was built between 3000 B.C. and 2000 B.C., over the course of roughly 1,500 years, in a series of several major phases.

When the sun sets on the winter solstice, its rays align with what are known as the central Altar stone and the Slaughter stone — an event that hundreds of families, tourists, Wiccans, and others visit each year to experience what researchers believe was an important spiritual event for those responsible for creating the monument. https://www.livescience.com/42152-ancie ... stice.html

WAY before the Jesus people took over the Roman Empire

[SallyF]

4. Goseck circle, Germany

The Goseck circle is a series of concentric rings dug into the ground — the largest of which measures about 246 feet (75 m) in diameter — located in Saxony-Anhalt, Germany. It dates back to about 4900 B.C., but was forgotten and covered by a wheat field before being discovered through aerial surveys in the early 1990s. Archaeological remains suggest Goseck circle was the site of religious rituals, such as sacrifices.

Upon discovery and excavation, researchers realized that two gates cut into the outermost circle aligned with the sunrise and sunset of the winter solstice, suggesting this the circle was somehow a tribute to the solstice. https://www.livescience.com/42152-ancie ... stice.html

WAY, Way before Jesus' propagandists didn't mention celebrating his birthday.

[SallyF]

Zagmuk, which literally means "beginning of the year", is a Mesopotamian festival celebrating the New Year. The feast fell in December[1] and lasted about 12 days.[2] It celebrates the triumph of Marduk, the patron deity of Babylon, over the forces of Chaos, symbolized in later times by Tiamat. The battle between Marduk and Chaos lasts 12 days, as does the festival of Zagmuk. In Uruk the festival was associated with the god An, the Sumerian god of the night sky. Both are essentially equivalent in all respects to the Akkadian "Akitu" festival. In some variations, Marduk is slain by Tiamat on the winter solstice and resurrected on the vernal equinox.[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagmuk

This "God" make-believe (IMO) is far, far, far older than the Jewish Jehovah.

We will consider the tremendous influences the Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Greek, Roman and other cultures had on the "God" notions of the Judean hillbillies who produced the Jehovah propaganda and genocidal superstition at a much, much, much later date than the "scriptures" of these early civilisations.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 50 by Mithrae]

While the solstice itself may have been a positive factor encouraging Christians to accept that as a good time to celebrate the nativity, odds are that pagan celebrations on particular dates around that time would have had a drag factor (at least throughout the 3rd and early 4th centuries, if my comments to JW are reasonable).

We're getting right into speculation here, with talk of "odds" and such.

Good.

Allow me to speculate that indigenous celebrations would NOT have been a drag at all.

We seem to be generally agreed that Winter Solstice celebrations and birthday bashes were around for some millennia before the possibly fictional Jesus character supposedly burst out through the hymen of the BVM.

Imagine though today that the Raelians (https://www.rael.org/home) were granted the monopoly on religion - just like Christians were.

Imagine the furore and logistical nightmare of changing the long-standing public holiday dates of Easter and Thanksgiving and Christmas and such …!

I bet the odds are that the Jesus monopolists just rebadged the same old public holidays.

It's a very simple, easy, drag-free explanation/speculation.

Any suggestion that Christians were the first folks EVER to figure that the Winter Solstice was a GREAT time for a religious public holiday ..

and to hold that public holiday in honour of their Divine Leader whose propagandists didn't even hint at such a thing …

has the odds stacked against it.

In my opinionated speculation.

[nightshadetwine]

It's certainly possible (maybe even probable) that a celebration occurring around the time of the winter solstice was a factor influencing Christians' readiness to adopt a particular date. There's plenty of astronomical symbolism and metaphor in both the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, and in this case the symbolism would be particularly obvious; "The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world" (John 1:9). If the sun darkened at Jesus' death, why would it not brighten at his birth?

But is there any reason to insert a pagan festival in there as an intermediary step between the solstice and Christmas? Particularly since either the 'calculation hypothesis' or a loose importation of Hannukah into the Roman calendar (or both, for that matter) provide less outlandish and in the former case historically attested reasons why early Christians were looking at late December in the first place. While the solstice itself may have been a positive factor encouraging Christians to accept that as a good time to celebrate the nativity, odds are that pagan celebrations on particular dates around that time would have had a drag factor (at least throughout the 3rd and early 4th centuries, if my comments to JW are reasonable).

I'll get back to you later on the rest of your post

Yeah, I don't know for sure of course, and we do have more evidence that they chose that date by calculating his death and conception. There's a few other reasons that make me suspect there may be a connection to the sun/winter solstice though.

I looked into this some more and found a good post on the subject here https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2018 ... 8314810748

According to that blogger, the idea that the birth of Horus happened during the Kikellia isn't accurate. Apparently the scholar who claimed that was incorrect and other scholars have been repeating what he said. I'll have to look into it some more.

That blogger does say that there was a tradition of the winter solstice on December 25th though. He doesn't think there's any connection to Christianity though. He doesn't mention Plutarch's mention of Harpocrates being born on the winter solstice or Macrobius saying that the Egyptians bring forth the newborn sun on the winter solstice. He also doesn't mention the sun being reborn on or around the time of the winter solstice as found in Ovid.

So there still seems to be a tradition of the sun being born or reborn around the time of the winter solstice and the winter solstice was sometimes said to be on December 25th.

[SallyF]

Religious leaders, it seems to me, learned a very long time ago to keep whatever it is they are peddling as vague and mysterious as possible.

The writers of the Christian propaganda, for example, never have their possibly fictional Jesus character give a straight answer.

One of the very few unique things about the Christianities is their claim to uniqueness.

[Tart]

[Replying to post 41 by Zzyzx]





Cultures around the world that have been crushed by the religion of the Genocidal Jehovah, and the Soon-to-be-Genocidal Jesus, are reclaiming their ancient heritages.

Britons again celebrate the Winter Solstice at Stonehenge.

Christianity can no longer lay the false claim to primacy and monopoly on the season …

Especially when they cannot confirm that their Leader even existed, let alone was sired by a god on a human virgin …

And whose birth details are as vague and superstition-filled as any other fantasy figure.

The plagues are coming... Sally, you need to start believing... Death is coming, i see it... God save us... Pray for us...

[Tart]

The truth of brainwashing
viewtopic.php?t=36639

its in people.. The blind are leading the dead into a ditch.