Christian-Sponsored Hatred for Gays

Jagella · Post by **Jagella** » Sat Jan 04, 2020 12:07 pm

Do you support Christian hatred for gays?

I was inspired to broach this topic after reading a column in the January 2020 issue of Scientific American. The column written by the editors is entitled Time's Up for "Anti-Gay Therapy." According to those editors:

Although medical and psychological associations have asked explicitly that Congress and state governments ban anti-gay conversion (by Christians), there has been a backlash from (Christian) groups like the Liberty Council, which promotes "evangelical values."

The column condemns the "detestable practice" of the attempt by many Christians to alter a person's homosexuality because the practice does "irreparable harm" to people. Forty-two percent of a subgroup who have had this "therapy" inflicted on them have committed suicide.

FWI · Post by **FWI** » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:32 pm

benchwarmer wrote:No, the statistics do not support that. We actually don't know for sure what the problem is based on these statistics, but which seems more likely: minor commits (or attempts to commit) suicide because: 1) They are attracted to someone. 2) They are told their feelings are not 'natural' or normal and face pressure to conform to their average peers who are straight.

Firstly, there is nothing abnormal about having an attraction for someone! The attraction turns abnormal when acted on improperly. This will always be the caseNot only, with the gays, but also with the heterosexuals.

Yet, if society doesn't actually know for sure what the problem is, then it seems that the reality of the situation is that society is looking in the wrong direction and just guessing about a solution. This seems to be the position of many. Where, the problem isn't getting any better, it's actually getting worstHence, a new approach is required! We shouldn't be looking to blame others for the problem, this is just a cope-outWe should be focusing on the mental health of the individuals or groups who have unnatural desires, such as attempting to commit suicide and other issues

benchwarmer wrote:All the statistics tell us is that non straight individuals have a higher suicide rate.

Thank you for admitting this.

benchwarmer wrote:Well, I strongly disagree and your opinion clearly shows your religious bias rather than any scientific supported causes.

I'm sure you do (disagree). Yet, you also have agreed that suicide among the gays is higher than the straights and that society doesn't know whyThis is not normal, it's abnormal! If, something is abnormal with an individual or group of individuals, the first place we should be looking for a solution is the individual or groupIn an article in ScienceMag it is claimed that of the young people who have recently attempted suicide or are having suicidal thoughts. All have been diagnosed with a mental illness!

Randy Auerbach, a clinical psychologist at Columbia University and a MAPS coinvestigator, is used to hearing that the study sounds like an invasion of privacy. But Auerbach, who has interviewed thousands of teenagers to gauge their suicide risk and laid plans to try to keep them safe, has a response. "Kids are killing themselves in record numbers, and what we've traditionally tried to do isn't working," he says. "We really need to rethink this." (Article: Suicide attempts are hard to anticipate. A study that tracks teens cellphone use aims to change that, Aug 2019)

Therefore, since gay teens are being taught that their sexual orientation is not abnormal and the idea that their extremely abnormal suicide rates, as compared to heterosexual counterparts, is not a mental health issue just confuses the gay teens even moreThis could result in the rejection of help, related to mental health issues, including sexual orientation. It seems that the politics of the issue is more important than the wellbeing of the individual

So, where is the religious bias?

Menotu · Post by **Menotu** » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:24 pm

[Replying to post 58 by JehovahsWitness]

I was referring to all biblical laws, as listed in the Christian bible.
Do you follow all of them, or only certain ones?
Some include issues with food, certain fabrics, doing things on the Sabbath (first we'd have to decide which day is the correct day for the Sabbath I suppose), legal crimes, parenting, slaves, etc. The 'law list' is rather entailed.

brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:23 pm

[Replying to post 81 by FWI]

Firstly, there is nothing abnormal about having an attraction for someone! The attraction turns abnormal when acted on improperly. This will always be the caseNot only, with the gays, but also with the heterosexuals.

How are those improper actions determined and by whom?

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:46 pm

...for a second I thought this was a new topic: Gay-Sponsored Hatred for Christians,

whew, gave me a startle!!!

Post by **Tcg** » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:09 pm

ttruscott wrote: ...for a second I thought this was a new topic: Gay-Sponsored Hatred for Christians,

whew, gave me a startle!!!

You're certainly free to start such a thread. Finding verifiable evidence to support it may prove challenging.

Tcg

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:54 am

Menotu wrote: [Replying to post 58 by JehovahsWitness]

I was referring to all biblical laws, as listed in the Christian bible.
Do you follow all of them, or only certain ones...

The laws of Moses have been abolished, if you are American do you keep slaves ? Did you have a point? If so do you think you are able to make it in a sentence or two? If not, have an excellent week,

JW

EarthScienceguy · Post by **EarthScienceguy** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:36 am

[Replying to Jagella]

I'm glad you have cited these statistics. I see no obvious reason why such tragedy would result directly from gay or lesbian leanings. However, if gays are persecuted by Christians or anybody else, then it seems much easier to understand why they would die young, especially if their deaths result from suicide or murder.

The homosexual lifestyle is more accepted today than it has ever been in the past, so the rate of suicide and murder should be decreasing, but that is not the case.

With regards to murder it is usually one person from the homosexual community murdering another member from the homosexual community. Do you have any scientific studies that say that there is no connection with these types of destructive behavior and homosexuallity or is it just a FEELING of yours. I am sure your feelings mean a lot to you but they do not prove anything.

Quote:
Those that engage in homosexual behaviors are 87 times more likely to die of murder. Again how helping those out of this destructive lifestyle hatred and not love.

If we want to help people escape destructive lifestyles, then let's help them escape Christianity! That way they won't be taught that it is holy to believe that homosexuals should be murdered like the Bible demands.

You are free to believe anyway you wish. But the statistics show that the homosexual lifestyle in the homosexual community that causes the premature death of homosexual, even to a greater extent than smoking.

EarthScienceguy · Post by **EarthScienceguy** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:56 am

[Replying to post 77 by brunumb]

So, let's take the biblical approach and put them all to death. I'm sure the help you have envisioned is what Yahweh had in mind as well.

Yes, the Bible declares that homosexuality is a sin, along with many other sexual sins, like fornication, beastality, adultery. The Bible declares that sexual intimacy is only acceptable in one situation. When a man and women is married. In the Old Testament all sexual encounters outside of the acceptable situation resulted in death.

The treatment sin has changed in the New Testament because of the radical change that is caused when a person becomes a Christian. Many a person has been transformed by the power of Christ. So anyone in sexual relationships outside of what is acceptable in the Bible can be changed and a person is has a desire to follow God's word.

So what you may call "Conversion Therapy" for those that are Christian it is their desire to leave the homomosexual lifestyle not someone trying to change a person outside of what they desire.

So if these people have a desire to leave the homosexual lifestyle because Christ changed their life, their desire to change would be nothing that any that is not a christian could even understand because you have never been touched by the power of God

EarthScienceguy · Post by **EarthScienceguy** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:27 am

[Replying to post 78 by Tcg]

Conversion therapy doesn't attempt to help people out of a destructive lifestyle. It attempts, and fails again and again, to change an individual's sexual orientation.

It fails because sexual orientation can't be changed. Conversion therapy's failure is yet another bit a relevant data that supports this fact.

Position statements of the major mental health organizations in the United States state that there is no scientific evidence that a homosexual sexual orientation can be changed by psychotherapy, often referred to as reparative therapy. This study tested the hypothesis that some individuals whose sexual orientation is predominantly homosexual can, with some form of reparative therapy, become predominantly heterosexual. The participants were 200 self-selected individuals (143 males, 57 females) who reported at least some minimal change from homosexual to heterosexual orientation that lasted at least 5 years. They were interviewed by telephone, using a structured interview that assessed same sex attraction, fantasy, yearning, and overt homosexual behavior. On all measures, the year prior to the therapy was compared to the year before the interview. The majority of participants gave reports of change from a predominantly or exclusively homosexual orientation before therapy to a predominantly or exclusively heterosexual orientation in the past year. Reports of complete change were uncommon. Female participants reported significantly more change than did male participants. Either some gay men and lesbians, following reparative therapy, actually change their predominantly homosexual orientation to a predominantly heterosexual orientation or some gay men and women construct elaborate self-deceptive narratives (or even lie) in which they claim to have changed their sexual orientation, or both. For many reasons, it is concluded that the participants' self-reports were, by-and-large, credible and that few elaborated self-deceptive narratives or lied. Thus, there is evidence that change in sexual orientation following some form of reparative therapy does occur in some gay men and lesbians.

Can Some Gay Men and Lesbians Change Their Sexual Orientation? 200 Participants Reporting a Change from Homosexual to Heterosexual Orientation
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 5647527010

So there is evidence that conversion therapy does make a change in the sexual orientation of individuals.

Jagella · Post by **Jagella** » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:18 pm

EarthScienceguy wrote:The homosexual lifestyle is more accepted today than it has ever been in the past, so the rate of suicide and murder should be decreasing, but that is not the case.

If the rate of suicide among homosexuals is higher than the general population, then it's a public health issue that needs to be addressed. I'm in favor of scientific research into the matter and our society taking corrective measures to decrease any rate of suicide among gays, lesbians, or anybody else.

Are you with me here?

With regards to murder it is usually one person from the homosexual community murdering another member from the homosexual community.

Where did you get this information, and how does it relate to the topic of this thread?

Do you have any scientific studies that say that there is no connection with these types of destructive behavior and homosexuallity or is it just a FEELING of yours.

I haven't studied the "connection" between homosexuality and the incidence of suicide and murder among gays a whole lot, but I do have the article I cited in the OP. The folks at Scientific American are arguing that the Christians who inflict anti-gay therapy on homosexuals are driving them to commit suicide.

Now, does the homosexual lifestyle itself cause a higher incidence of suicide and murder among gays? I think this question is hard to answer because we would need to isolate the different factors that may cause gays to take their own lives. That way we could see which factor is truly responsible for "destructive" lifestyles among gays.

I am sure your feelings mean a lot to you but they do not prove anything.

Hmmm. Are you saying that people are foolish to allow their feelings to skew their thinking? Who would be so foolish?

You are free to believe anyway you wish.

It's not a belief but a fact that the Bible demands the murder of homosexuals. See Leviticus 20:13.

In any case, we are not going to rid the world of homosexuals. Homosexuality is a natural kind of behavior that almost certainly has a genetic basis. Since many people cannot help being gay, we should not harm them or punish them. I say live and let live. Gays are as good as anybody else, and to harm them is the true evil.