Can the Bible's divine authorship be demonstrated by logic?

[McCulloch]

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

2. The Bible is God's Word*

Can the Bible's divine authorship be demonstrated by logical deduction?

[todd_vetter33]

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

2. The Bible is God's Word*

Can the Bible's divine authorship be demonstrated by logical deduction?

Though Word of God is perfect truth via the spirit of truth, The bible is severely lacking the standard for perfect truth. The bible gospels fail to illustrate Jesus being chosen by the people on the tenth day and killed 4 days later. They attempt to portray Jesus alive on 15 Nissan only to die on 16 Nissan. The Chronologial order of events for the life of Jesus are all mixed up when bible gospels are cross compared. In short, the bible gospels do not speak according to the law and testiomony Jesus claimed to fulfill.

Can you show that is true?? Please, show me some tangible evidence (not testimony), taht 'the word of God is perfect truth'>





The Christian bible can be claimed to be WORD of God, But the person making the claim is lying and has yet to know God to receive word of God (perfect truth) from God.

[/quote]

I shared with you word of God (truth) concerning the discrepancies and errors that can be found in the Christian bible NT in the Picture images shared. If you want to touch them, print them out and put them in your hands.

If you want other perfect truth from God (Scripture) that you can touch, simply enjoy eating of the fruits and grains of the earth which exist by word of God for you to eat.

For others, enjoy the picture illustrations of the actual location where the children of Israel crossed the sea and some of the other physical locations mentioned in the Exodus account as seen from google earth.

[Goat]

I shared with you word of God (truth) concerning the discrepancies and errors that can be found in the Christian bible NT in the Picture images shared. If you want to touch them, print them out and put them in your hands.

Please provide evidence that what you claim is the 'Word of God(truth), is true, and the word of God. Show me that the NT is 'the word of god'. Prove it. Support your claim. .

[jimvansage]

"Can you show that is true?? Please, show me some tangible evidence (not testimony), that 'the word of God is perfect truth"

If credible testimony supported by history is not evidence, then what is?
How is a path in the Red Sea and a split rock not evidence of the testimony of Exodus?

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 74:

I shared with you word of God (truth) concerning the discrepancies and errors that can be found in the Christian bible NT in the Picture images shared.

You shared nothing but pictures of biblical passages, and nothing by which these passages can be confirmed as truth.

If you want other perfect truth from God (Scripture) that you can touch, simply enjoy eating of the fruits and grains of the earth which exist by word of God for you to eat.

Empty platitude I contend is an attempt to sound wisened, while confirming you're anything but.

For others, enjoy the picture illustrations of the actual location where the children of Israel crossed the sea and some of the other physical locations mentioned in the Exodus account as seen from google earth.

I s'pose "actual" to one is "a best guess" to another.

You do nothing to support your claims but point to pictures as if these are to be considered authoritative.

Farcisitude in action.

[arian]

From Post 74:

I shared with you word of God (truth) concerning the discrepancies and errors that can be found in the Christian bible NT in the Picture images shared.

You shared nothing but pictures of biblical passages, and nothing by which these passages can be confirmed as truth.

If you want other perfect truth from God (Scripture) that you can touch, simply enjoy eating of the fruits and grains of the earth which exist by word of God for you to eat.

Empty platitude I contend is an attempt to sound wisened, while confirming you're anything but.

For others, enjoy the picture illustrations of the actual location where the children of Israel crossed the sea and some of the other physical locations mentioned in the Exodus account as seen from google earth.

I s'pose "actual" to one is "a best guess" to another.

You do nothing to support your claims but point to pictures as if these are to be considered authoritative.

Farcisitude in action.

So pointing to million year old cave paintings to 'prove' some Evolution of humans be less of a farcisitude?

How about a 'scientific claim' of a tiny rock/string/gravitation (pick your choice) popping out of nothing 13.75 years ago that evolved all the suns and planets we see in space today including the life here on earth for absolutely no reason, no plan? Would you consider such 'makebelieve-scientific data' (science-which means observing the world around us, not creating scientific data of assumed hypothesis and fairy-tales that might of happened long, ... long, ... long time ago, billions of years before any scientist was even around?) be a better and more valid support for 'science' to 'prove' God does not exist so neither did Moses?

You cannot even start to compare the two, the Bible is history of the creation of the universe, earth and man and answers as to who we are, where did we come from why we are here and where we are going, ... of which Evolutionary myths answer none of, unless these following answers are sufficient for you?

Q. "Why are we here?"

Evolution: "It happened, ... OK?"

Q. "Where did we come from?"

Evolution: "From a speck turned bacteria"

Q. "Where are we going?"

Evolution: "Evolving back to a speck and then back to the nothing we popped out of"

Q. "What do you think of a Book called the Bible??"

Evolution: "The contents of the Bible were created by man (yet claims man was not created), all made up of lies (yet asks; what is truth?), tribal myths and fairytales that has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution (yet it describes evolving tribes and myths) which proves that 'no one', and 'nothing' was involved in some 'plan' to bring the universe, the earth and biological life into existence!"

I don't know about you, but the Bible I can stand on, build my house on, raise my kids on, builds me faith to believe in that I can put my hope in, reveals absolute truths which gives me the reason to fight for ... and even die for. I also know that truth never dies, so if I give up this body for the truth, I will be resurrected to live in Truth that never can pass away.

[Clownboat]

I believe that the following facets of my faith can be demonstrated by logical deduction

2. The Bible is God's Word*

Can the Bible's divine authorship be demonstrated by logical deduction?

The Author's of the Bible, at least the New Testament, are well known. The Apostolic Gospels are written by Matthew, Mark, Luke. Then there are the Pauline Epistles, written by Paul, and even Revelations, written by John of Patmos.

Given that these are well known claims by those knowledgeable of the Bible, I am left wondering what specifically you are asking about regarding the authorship of the Bible?

Please show how you know who the authors of the gospels are. This will be ground breaking because until you show us, this has been unknown to scholars. They will need to see your evidence as well. I also can't wait to see your evidence. Thank you.

You also have claimed elsewhere that the Bible says Jesus will be born of a virgin. I asked for that proof as well and am still waiting.

Will you back up your claims, or be honorable and retract them if you can't?

[Clownboat]

So pointing to million year old cave paintings to 'prove' some Evolution of humans be less of a farcisitude?

Strawman. No one claims that cave paintings 'prove' evolution.

How about a 'scientific claim' of a tiny rock/string/gravitation (pick your choice) popping out of nothing 13.75 years ago that evolved all the suns and planets we see in space today including the life here on earth for absolutely no reason, no plan? Would you consider such 'makebelieve-scientific data' (science-which means observing the world around us, not creating scientific data of assumed hypothesis and fairy-tales that might of happened long, ... long, ... long time ago, billions of years before any scientist was even around?) be a better and more valid support for 'science' to 'prove' God does not exist so neither did Moses?

Please start a new thread if you would like to discuss this.

You cannot even start to compare the two, the Bible is history of the creation of the universe, earth and man and answers as to who we are,

Can you provide evidence for this claim, or will you admit that you cannot prove that the Bible is a history of the creation of the universe and only brought it up because it is your opinion?

Where did we come from why we are here and where we are going, ... of which Evolutionary myths answer none of, unless these following answers are sufficient for you?

I think it is apparent that you really, really want answers to these questions. Like I have said for years. Religions answer these questions. So if you are a person that needs answers to these questios, use faith, and pick a religion to follow. Just about any will do and your needs about being here have been met. No need to thank me.

Evolution: "The contents of the Bible were created by man (yet claims man was not created), all made up of lies (yet asks; what is truth?), tribal myths and fairytales that has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution (yet it describes evolving tribes and myths) which proves that 'no one', and 'nothing' was involved in some 'plan' to bring the universe, the earth and biological life into existence!"

Please study evolution. What you seem to think it is... is way off. Evolution does not care about your Bible stories and the theory was not created to disprove any god concept.

I don't know about you, but the Bible I can stand on, build my house on, raise my kids on, builds me faith to believe in that I can put my hope in, reveals absolute truths which gives me the reason to fight for ... and even die for. I also know that truth never dies, so if I give up this body for the truth, I will be resurrected to live in Truth that never can pass away.

Very fanciful claim. I'll leave you with it because it is a totally emotional claim and won't bother asking for evidence for this one knowing such to be the case.

I would suggest that you use less emotion and more logical thinking to arrive at your opinions, but if emotion fits you better... than so be it I guess.

[jimvansage]

Can I directly prove that Jesus was born of a virgin or that the authors of the Bible are who they claim to be (though guided by the Holy Spirit of God)? Not directly per se.

Look at archaeology. Archaeologists discovered that the walls of Jericho fell outward. This supports the idea that the walls fell down miraculously by the power of God, though it is a supporting evidence, it is not proof positive.
There was no evidence of the Hittite empire as recorded in the Bible for centuries, yet in the past century archaeologists have begun to uncover the remains of that empire.
It was very recently that archaeological evidence was found that there was a King David, though we had evidence of Solomon for some time now.

If there were still only evidence of Solomon but not of David, then one might object that I can prove Solomon but not David, therefore the Bible is in error. This is a faulty conclusion, because proving some historical accounts to be true in reality has no sway one way or the other on the other accounts.
The lack of evidence only evidences lack of evidence - whether such evidence will be found in the future or if it has been lost to history does not matter. The question doesn't come down to how reliable is the Bible percentage wise, or how much of it has been backed up by evidence. (I'm not claiming that every single thing claimed in the Bible can be backed up by evidence-virgin birth or authorship).

But there are things we can know that make the Bible stand out as a document which claims to be the Word of God.

1. there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts our proper scientific understanding of the natural world
2. there are no contradictions
3. the message is unified despite being written over a period of 1500 years from (allegedly, I'll admit) 40 different authors from different cultural backgrounds
4. the one quality that stands out: predictive prophecy

1. The Old Testament was complete before 132 B.C.
2. Jesus of Nazareth lived and died around A.D. 30
3. The major world powers after Babylon were the Medo-Persian empire, the Macedonian empire, and the Roman empire (the empire under which Jesus lived, the church was established, and Christianity began).

That and if Matthew 24 was written before AD 70, it foretells the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans (who you consider "scholars", educated men who reject the Bible, might attest this point, so I'm not pushing it. The 300+ OT prophecies are far more convincing - and if they could not be predicted with precision without information provided by God, then God inspired it, and the document is trustworthy)

[Danmark]

"Can you show that is true?? Please, show me some tangible evidence (not testimony), that 'the word of God is perfect truth"

If credible testimony supported by history is not evidence, then what is?
How is a path in the Red Sea and a split rock not evidence of the testimony of Exodus?

What path?

Are you serious about the split rock being evidence of anything besides the existence of a split rock and the mundane process of rocks being split by the thaw/freeze cycle?

First there is a rock. Then water gets into cracks in the rock and the water expands during the freeze cycle, making the crack bigger.
Then when the crack fill up with water in the thaw period, allowing more water to go deeper into the rock which will eventually make the rock split apart
when it freezes again.

That is why you see split rocks everywhere.

[Danmark]

But there are things we can know that make the Bible stand out as a document which claims to be the Word of God.

1. there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts our proper scientific understanding of the natural world
2. there are no contradictions

Feeling lazy, so let's just go with the first two for now.
What you are implying, but i'm guessing you will not agree to , is that if it is shown there ARE things in the Bible that contradict 'our proper scientific understanding of the natural world' then we know the Bible is NOT the Word of God.

1. The bible teaches a flat earth** and that the sun orbits the earth.
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. "
Ecclesiastes 1:5)

2.There are many contradictions. Just in the account of the morning of the 'resurrection'*
MATT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MARK 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

JOHN 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

The Order of Creation

Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam.

Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:26-27 Adam and Eve were created at the same time.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22 Adam was created first, woman sometime later.



___________________
**Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.htm

*Who Were the First Visitors to Jesus Tomb?

Matthew 28:1: After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
Mary Magdalene and the other Mary

Mark 16:1: When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus body.
The two Marys, plus a third person, Salome

Luke 24:10: When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles.
The two Marys, Joanna, and "the others."

John 20:1: Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.
Only Mary Magdalene

Was the Stone Rolled Away?

Matthew 28:1-2: After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it.
The stone was in place when they arrived, and the angel rolled it back.

Mark 16:4: But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
The stone had already been rolled away upon their arrival, noted also in Luke 24:2 and John 20:1.


Who Did the Visitors Tell of Jesus Empty Tomb?

Matthew 28:8: So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me."
The visitors were overjoyed, and they ran to tell the disciples

Mark 16:8: Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
They were afraid, and told no one.

Luke 24:9: When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others.
They told the eleven and others.

John 20:10: Then the disciples went back to their homes, but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
Mary informed Simon and the other disciple about the empty tomb, then she remained at the tomb crying.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/ ... radictions