Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

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Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #1

Post by otseng »

DrNoGods wrote: [Replying to post 134 by AgnosticBoy]
I think we all need to tone down our fears about this virus, especially now that there's a treatment for covid-19:


That might be wording it a little too strongly. The tests showed two things:

1) Hospital stays were reduced from 15 days on average to 11 days.

2) The mortality rate was 8.0% vs. 11.6% for placebo.

These are certainly beneficial results, and technically a "treatment" as it improves the patient's condition. But an 8% mortality rate is still something to be concerned about and I think most people would consider that to suggest that we still need to remain vigilant. As the study doctors say, more work is needed. It is a treatment not a cure, and people can still die who get the drug as the study showed. So not pouring cold water on the results, but I doubt it will allay fear in most people just yet. Good news all the same.
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Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #21

Post by Jemima »

benchwarmer wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:29 am Look, I get your basic point. No one want to have an adverse side effect from a vaccine OR Covid-19. You have to look at the latest science and make your choice.
There is so much more to this pandemic than is being told. I have never seen such concerted efforts to hush up the opposition in all my life. Censorship is dictatorship. Where is free speech?

Informed consent is what is needed, but if valid but conflicting scientific information is being withheld, then something is very wrong with this whole scenario. There are always two sides to every story. In this case, we are only allowed to hear one side, unless we source our information from the only other platform there is to dispense both. You tell me why we are not permitted to hear valid scientific arguments from those equally qualified to make those judgment calls. Who has something to lose financially here? I always follow the money trail. Who has vested interests in making billions of dollars out of this pandemic? And who is simply sounding a warning about long term safety and offering another way to deal with the situation? What is in it for them?

No one in western society wants to take responsibility for their own health it seems...they want a magic bullet, a pill or a jab, to make their problems go away so that they can continue to live their comfortable lives without making any sacrifices. The truth is we have been digging a grave with our teeth here for decades as the food we eat becomes more and more denatured, devoid of nutrients in favour of tantalizing out taste buds and being on tap 24/7. We are what we eat, so we in the wealthier nations have no excuse for our laziness. Our ill health is seen in the amount of drugs dispensed daily at our pharmacies. No cures, just treatments designed to make you a customer for life.

Nations who live in poverty have little choice but to eat what they can afford. So this virus is going to target those who have compromised immunity.....the elderly and those with underlying health issues, often caused by poor lifestyle choices or the inability to access nutritious food. A strong immune system is the best defence against any virus.

There is a bigger picture here that most people are not seeing. We need a balanced approach to make the right decision for ourselves. It’s our body and our right to determine what we put into it. Propaganda is being fed to the masses every day.....perception management is a science that we are all subject to. The media is used to feed us the only information they want us to believe. Lies will become truth to those who do not bother to do their own research.

The virus is real but early intervention is not being implemented. If this would save people from hospitalisation and death, why then is it not even tried? Is it because they are unsure of the safety? They can’t guarantee the long term safety of their vaccines either. Thousands of people have died from getting the vaccines, which you say is a small percentage.....do the victims feel that way? Should we not have that choice for ourselves? Either the jab or early intervention with therapies that are already available and approved. Please tell me why this is not a balanced approach, allowing people to exercise their own free will? Isn’t that taking responsibility for our own health?
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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #22

Post by Tcg »

Jemima wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:23 am
Tcg wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:15 pm Absent any source provided it's hard to decipher this claim. What is the time period for this claim? Is this worldwide? Perhaps you can provide a source for this claim to clear up these answers.
All we need to do is turn off mainstream media and look at YouTube if we want a balanced approach to information. It is the only source of accurate information from both sides of this issue. Those who want to have a balanced approach are not allowed a voice on mainstream media.
Those who can evaluate the risk/benefit ratio truthfully, according to the available science, are then at liberty to help people to enact their choice. Isn't this the best approach?
This doesn't answer my question. Do you have a source that supports your claim?
Tcg wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:15 pmThe charts referenced below are U.S. specific and paint a drastically different picture:
I do not believe that they paint a totally accurate picture. There are always two sides to every story. If we form our opinions on only one biased (vested interest) side of a story, then we can kiss the truth goodbye. Are people afraid of the truth? There is so much censorship, even of those who are equally qualified medically speaking, to make their views public. Why are their voices silenced? Don't we have to wonder?

Like this man....Dr Peter McCullough....what does he have to gain by wanting the truth to be told.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM

Please do not dismiss his testimony. Surely with his qualifications, he has a right to be heard too....?
These charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job
Immunizations are keeping the majority of vaccinated people out of the hospital
There is also a large number of people who have died, and thousands who have been disabled by the vaccines that they thought would protect them.
No one is hearing about them. These were not anti-vaxers....but victims, and they are being ignored and told to go away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9h5c4OQMYU

A report from the CDC itself says....
"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 369 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through August 30, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,218 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine."

Did any of those people think that the vaccine would do that to them? All of them were confident that what they had been told about vaccine safety was the truth. If there was even a possibility that this could happen, then shouldn't these people have been about it informed first?

Statistically, dying from the vaccine is rare, but death from Cv19 is also "rare" statistically speaking.....barely 2% actually get sick enough to go to hospital. And according to Dr Peter McCullough 85% of them could have been treated early and avoided hospital treatment. Thousands of people die of the ordinary seasonal flu every year.

The virus is real, no doubt about it, but some in the medical community are being gagged about how beneficial natural immunity is in leading to herd immunity, which is the only thing that will lead us out of this pandemic. Those who die from Cv19 in almost all cases had underlying health issues that also contributed to their inability to fight off the virus. But we are being told that even a seasonal flu might have had the same outcome for such people. The number of deaths attributed to Cv19, is thus inflated when co-morbidity is involved.
As the coronavirus continues to surge across the United States, hospitals are again filling up with ill COVID-19 patients. And the vast majority of those patients are unvaccinated, as two new charts help make exceedingly clear.
The vaccinated are also filling up the hospitals. Look what happened in Israel....? We will only reach herd immunity when enough people have had the virus and recovered. Natural immunity, regardless of the scare tactics to the contrary in the media, are the most successful at providing good and lasting immunity. If people want to have the jab, then let them but, please, all we ask is for transparency and the whole truth to be told. Don't we deserve that?
One of those charts shows that from January 24 to July 24, vaccinated individuals were hospitalized with COVID-19 at a much lower cumulative rate than unvaccinated individuals. And the difference in rates between the two groups has only grown over time. By late July, a total of about 26 adults per 100,000 vaccinated people had been hospitalized for COVID-19. That’s compared with about 431 hospitalized people for every 100,000 unvaccinated individuals — a rate roughly 17 times as high as for those who were vaccinated. The data come from 13 states, including California, Georgia and Utah.
These charts are not the whole story IMO. Many medical experts are coming out to tell us that early intervention in the treatment of Cv19, (as above) using existing therapies that already have approval, and are proving to be very successful overseas, are not being offered. Even many doctors have been given the impression that there is no early intervention possible. That is simply not true.
The accumulation of hospitalizations in each group over time, which that first chart shows, illustrates the risk of developing severe COVID-19 overall. And its message is clear: If you’re vaccinated during this pandemic, your risk of hospitalization is much, much lower than if you’re not vaccinated. The weekly rate, on the other hand, is a bit like the speedometer on a car — providing a glimpse of what’s happening week by week as the coronavirus spreads. Its message is also clear: The risk of a vaccinated person becoming hospitalized remains low at any given time, while the risk for unvaccinated people can fluctuate, probably as a result of community transmission.
Do you understand that no amount of vaccination will eliminate Cv19, no matter how many are vaccinated. You can still get it, and you can still spread it. The danger lies in believing that you are now immune, when no vaccine will do that. People should do their homework instead of listening only to mass media who are told what they can report and what they can't.

This has become such an emotive issue when all it needs is a calm and rational approach, and all avenues of early intervention explored and tried if the patients request it. Some people are going to die and there is no way to prevent that in some patients. But for the vast majority, this virus is not going to put them in hospital.

That is my informed and honest opinion.
I didn't ask for your "informed and honest opinion." I asked for a source that supports your claim. I've provided a source that contradicts your claim.


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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #23

Post by Tcg »

Tcg wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:25 pm
Jemima wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:23 am
Tcg wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:15 pm Absent any source provided it's hard to decipher this claim. What is the time period for this claim? Is this worldwide? Perhaps you can provide a source for this claim to clear up these answers.
All we need to do is turn off mainstream media and look at YouTube if we want a balanced approach to information. It is the only source of accurate information from both sides of this issue. Those who want to have a balanced approach are not allowed a voice on mainstream media.
Those who can evaluate the risk/benefit ratio truthfully, according to the available science, are then at liberty to help people to enact their choice. Isn't this the best approach?
This doesn't answer my question. Do you have a source that supports your claim?
Tcg wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:15 pmThe charts referenced below are U.S. specific and paint a drastically different picture:
I do not believe that they paint a totally accurate picture. There are always two sides to every story. If we form our opinions on only one biased (vested interest) side of a story, then we can kiss the truth goodbye. Are people afraid of the truth? There is so much censorship, even of those who are equally qualified medically speaking, to make their views public. Why are their voices silenced? Don't we have to wonder?

Like this man....Dr Peter McCullough....what does he have to gain by wanting the truth to be told.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM

Please do not dismiss his testimony. Surely with his qualifications, he has a right to be heard too....?
These charts show that COVID-19 vaccines are doing their job
Immunizations are keeping the majority of vaccinated people out of the hospital
There is also a large number of people who have died, and thousands who have been disabled by the vaccines that they thought would protect them.
No one is hearing about them. These were not anti-vaxers....but victims, and they are being ignored and told to go away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9h5c4OQMYU

A report from the CDC itself says....
"Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 369 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through August 30, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,218 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine."

Did any of those people think that the vaccine would do that to them? All of them were confident that what they had been told about vaccine safety was the truth. If there was even a possibility that this could happen, then shouldn't these people have been about it informed first?

Statistically, dying from the vaccine is rare, but death from Cv19 is also "rare" statistically speaking.....barely 2% actually get sick enough to go to hospital. And according to Dr Peter McCullough 85% of them could have been treated early and avoided hospital treatment. Thousands of people die of the ordinary seasonal flu every year.

The virus is real, no doubt about it, but some in the medical community are being gagged about how beneficial natural immunity is in leading to herd immunity, which is the only thing that will lead us out of this pandemic. Those who die from Cv19 in almost all cases had underlying health issues that also contributed to their inability to fight off the virus. But we are being told that even a seasonal flu might have had the same outcome for such people. The number of deaths attributed to Cv19, is thus inflated when co-morbidity is involved.
As the coronavirus continues to surge across the United States, hospitals are again filling up with ill COVID-19 patients. And the vast majority of those patients are unvaccinated, as two new charts help make exceedingly clear.
The vaccinated are also filling up the hospitals. Look what happened in Israel....? We will only reach herd immunity when enough people have had the virus and recovered. Natural immunity, regardless of the scare tactics to the contrary in the media, are the most successful at providing good and lasting immunity. If people want to have the jab, then let them but, please, all we ask is for transparency and the whole truth to be told. Don't we deserve that?
One of those charts shows that from January 24 to July 24, vaccinated individuals were hospitalized with COVID-19 at a much lower cumulative rate than unvaccinated individuals. And the difference in rates between the two groups has only grown over time. By late July, a total of about 26 adults per 100,000 vaccinated people had been hospitalized for COVID-19. That’s compared with about 431 hospitalized people for every 100,000 unvaccinated individuals — a rate roughly 17 times as high as for those who were vaccinated. The data come from 13 states, including California, Georgia and Utah.
These charts are not the whole story IMO. Many medical experts are coming out to tell us that early intervention in the treatment of Cv19, (as above) using existing therapies that already have approval, and are proving to be very successful overseas, are not being offered. Even many doctors have been given the impression that there is no early intervention possible. That is simply not true.
The accumulation of hospitalizations in each group over time, which that first chart shows, illustrates the risk of developing severe COVID-19 overall. And its message is clear: If you’re vaccinated during this pandemic, your risk of hospitalization is much, much lower than if you’re not vaccinated. The weekly rate, on the other hand, is a bit like the speedometer on a car — providing a glimpse of what’s happening week by week as the coronavirus spreads. Its message is also clear: The risk of a vaccinated person becoming hospitalized remains low at any given time, while the risk for unvaccinated people can fluctuate, probably as a result of community transmission.
Do you understand that no amount of vaccination will eliminate Cv19, no matter how many are vaccinated. You can still get it, and you can still spread it. The danger lies in believing that you are now immune, when no vaccine will do that. People should do their homework instead of listening only to mass media who are told what they can report and what they can't.

This has become such an emotive issue when all it needs is a calm and rational approach, and all avenues of early intervention explored and tried if the patients request it. Some people are going to die and there is no way to prevent that in some patients. But for the vast majority, this virus is not going to put them in hospital.

That is my informed and honest opinion.
I didn't ask for your "informed and honest opinion." I asked for a source that supports your claim. I've provided a source that contradicts your claim. Do you have one that supports it?


Tcg

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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #24

Post by Jemima »

[Replying to Tcg in post #23]
You can do your own research.......its not like you cannot access the same information that I have. You just trust the wrong people IMO. You are placing your future life and health in the hands of those who have a vested interest in you being sick. Their business model depends on it....creating customers for life.

Did you watch the video I linked to? This doctor has some very important information for all of us. Early intervention could save many lives. Why is it not being offered?

The “health” industry is not interested in cures...only in ongoing “treatments” that will keep you coming back for the rest of your life in the belief that symptom control is keeping you well. It’s a lie. Fixing what causes ill health would rob them of their very lucrative income. Are you a customer?
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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #25

Post by tam »

Peace to you all,

I apologize if this is off-topic at all, but considering some of the comments and information in this thread, some might find it relevant and informative. It is a letter from the WatchTowerSociety to people in Bethel, stating the WTS preference that people in Bethel receive a vaccine if at all possible. It quotes how many JW's have died from Covid (nearly 20 000), and that the WTS had not received a single report at the time of the letter (August 6) of a serious adverse reaction from the vaccine for anyone from Bethel who had been vaccinated (17957, at the time).

I do not understand why the information in the letter was deemed confidential or why the WTS requested Bethel not to share it with others. Other jws might benefit from knowing how the WTS feels about vaccinations (including the covid vaccination). Why not - as Jemima has said - let everyone have access to the same information? (I knew the side effects and potential for rare adverse events involved with the covid vaccine before I got it; so I can assure anyone interested that my decision was informed.)

In any case, the following is a Youtube video that shows the letter and its contents. I have not watched the entire video, and I have not listened to or read anyone's comments. Just interested in the facts.

The letter can be seen in the video from 2:53 - 6:55.



Peace again.

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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #26

Post by Jemima »

tam wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:22 pm I apologize if this is off-topic at all, but considering some of the comments and information in this thread, some might find it relevant and informative. It is a letter from the WatchTowerSociety to people in Bethel, stating the WTS preference that people in Bethel receive a vaccine if at all possible. It quotes how many JW's have died from Covid (nearly 20 000), and that the WTS had not received a single report at the time of the letter (August 6) of a serious adverse reaction from the vaccine for anyone from Bethel who had been vaccinated (17957, at the time).

I do not understand why the information in the letter was deemed confidential or why the WTS requested Bethel not to share it with others. Other jws might benefit from knowing how the WTS feels about vaccinations (including the covid vaccination). Why not - as Jemima has said - let everyone have access to the same information? (I knew the side effects and potential for rare adverse events involved with the covid vaccine before I got it; so I can assure anyone interested that my decision was informed.)
Because this is a personal decision, we are not told what to do. It is our body and we should determine that what goes into it is safe and effective.
The letter was not for general publication because the members of the Governing Body do not want to influence people one way or another.

As I have demonstrated throughout this thread, these are my own personal opinions and I take full responsibility for my own decisions. My aim here is to encourage people to search outside of the controlled mainstream media for their information, which at present is being heavily censored. Since the censorship is drowning out equally qualified voices, it has to arouse suspicion as to their motives. Who is benefiting financially from these vaccines and who is it that is censoring information from equally qualified scientists?

The instruction given is for the benefit of those in closed quarters. The Bethel family are a separate community whose lives would be impossible without the freedom to assemble to carry out their work. Its not really about the efficacy of the vaccines, but about the ability to function and to continue to carry out God's work in these troubled times.

If governments mandate vaccines, then we will comply, but as long as there is freedom of choice, the position I will take be my own decision....any mandate will be against my free will. But erosion of freedom is what we are seeing.....unless we are blind. Dobbing in your neighbors is what communist regimes required....and we are seeing it in supposedly democratic nations now. That to me raises red flags. Where is this taking us?

People will construe things as they wish and the views of opposers are nothing new. Jesus had to put up with a lot of misinformation spread about him too. The devil never changes his tactics you know. My wise old Grandma used to tell me..."do not believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see"....that has always been good advice to me, especially now when the world is changing so rapidly.

I will cherish my freedom of choice until it is taken away from me.....then I will rely on God to take me through what comes next.
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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #27

Post by Tcg »

Jemima wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:21 pm [Replying to Tcg in post #23]
You can do your own research.......its not like you cannot access the same information that I have.
You made this claim:
Jemima wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:37 pm 50% of those hospitilized for Cv19 were vaccinated.
It is not my duty to support your claims. This is debate sub-forum and those who make claims are expected to support those claims with evidence.


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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #28

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

[Replying to Jemima in post #26]

Before getting into your post, I did watch the video you posted and have a couple of comments. Some of the things that doctor has said have been shown to be inaccurate, but lets just go with the basic statement that there are treatments for covid-19.

Couple of points on that:

1 - there is no either/or. There is no treatment OR vaccine. Treatments are fine, good, for those who have contracted a disease, any disease. But that doesn't mean you forego a vaccine. Vaccines are about preventing contraction of disease (especially for the greater population), protecting oneself and one's neighbors, and/or for ensuring milder symptoms when breakthrough cases occur.

We have treatments for tetanus, but that does not mean a person should refuse to get a tetanus shot.

We have treatments for meningitis, but that does not mean a person should refuse to get a meningitis vaccine (for themselves or for their children).

We have treatments for measles, mumps, rubella, but that does not mean we should cancel (or forego) childhood vaccinations.

Even with treatments for covid, that does not mean a person should forego the vaccine.

2 - Treatments can help in some cases, but not all cases. We can treat meningitis, but people still die from it. We can treat tetanus, but that doesn't mean you would EVER want to go through the agony of having it.


Treatments are great, and many are being researched, some are being used. https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-treatm ... hospital#1 (there are five pages to that link, so if you check it out, don't miss the other four).

But that doesn't mean we forego vaccines.


(I would also like to note that the doctor is not an expert in immunology. He is an expert in kidney and heart disease. I found an article here that provides counter-information to some of his claims: https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... ccullough/ )


**

So... from your previous response:

[Replying to Jemima in post #26]

The instruction given is for the benefit of those in closed quarters. The Bethel family are a separate community whose lives would be impossible without the freedom to assemble to carry out their work. Its not really about the efficacy of the vaccines, but about the ability to function and to continue to carry out God's work in these troubled times.
But that is about the efficacy of vaccines, is it not?

If the vaccines were not effective, then what would be the point in recommending them for anyone living in close quarters?

The letter also states that 99% of jws (in the US) who have been hospitalized or who have died from covid were not vaccinated. (I don't know how accurate that is; the stats here in Canada are not that high for the general population - the majority of those hospitalized and in ICU are not vaccinated or are partially vaccinated, but I don't know the percentage of each). The letter also states other beneficial reasons for getting the vaccine (travel, possible restrictions based on vaccination status in some places), but also health benefits.

20 000 jws dying from covid is a significant number - I mean, even the number you stated of people dying from the vaccine is not that high.

But erosion of freedom is what we are seeing.....unless we are blind. Dobbing in your neighbors is what communist regimes required....and we are seeing it in supposedly democratic nations now.


Some religions require dobbing in your neighbors (your brothers and sisters) as well. But I wasn't aware that we were seeing people informing on their neighbors regarding vaccination status (considering that vaccines are not mandatory). Is something else happening in Australia?
That to me raises red flags. Where is this taking us?

People will construe things as they wish and the views of opposers are nothing new. Jesus had to put up with a lot of misinformation spread about him too.
I'm not sure why you went there. This is not about people opposing Christ. And the doctor in your video would be an opposer as well, right? People who disagree with one another are opposing one another (at least in the matter of disagreement).
The devil never changes his tactics you know. My wise old Grandma used to tell me..."do not believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see"....that has always been good advice to me, especially now when the world is changing so rapidly.
Are you suggesting that covid vaccination has something to do with the devil? Would you think the same for other vaccinations, including vaccinations that ARE mandatory if you want to travel? (in some places you have to have particular vaccines in order to be granted entry into that country) Childhood vaccinations? The smallpox vaccination when that first came out? I'm just not sure what you are suggesting here.



Peace again to you and thank you for the discussion!

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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #29

Post by Jemima »

Replying to tam in post #28
Before getting into your post, I did watch the video you posted and have a couple of comments. Some of the things that doctor has said have been shown to be inaccurate,
Shown by whom to be inaccurate? Pick your source.....if each are equally qualified, then Dr Robert Malone (the inventor of mRNA technology used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccs) is equal to any voice on this topic.....and even he was sounding a warning about long term adverse reactions, but they have been removed from public view.
but lets just go with the basic statement that there are treatments for covid-19.

Couple of points on that:

1 - there is no either/or. There is no treatment OR vaccine. Treatments are fine, good, for those who have contracted a disease, any disease. But that doesn't mean you forego a vaccine. Vaccines are about preventing contraction of disease (especially for the greater population), protecting oneself and one's neighbors, and/or for ensuring milder symptoms when breakthrough cases occur.
According to the medical experts that I have listened to, that is not accurate. If you have had C19 and recovered, then you do not need the vax. You have natural long lasting immunity, which is superior to any vax. The very fact that you recovered from the virus is proof that you made the antibodies necessary to defeat it.

So there is treatment for the virus available, with approved therapies that have proven to be effective as both early treatments and preventatives in many countries which did not have access to the vaccines due to cost and availability. The studies are being ignored or dismissed as misinformation. But its not misinformation at all.....it just disagrees with the institutions who have a vested interest in the vast profits that are being made with these vaccines....into the billions of dollars and climbing with each jab or booster shot. The suggestion is now two...three or more!
2 - Treatments can help in some cases, but not all cases. We can treat meningitis, but people still die from it. We can treat tetanus, but that doesn't mean you would EVER want to go through the agony of having it.
Do you know how the human immune system works? Because if you do, then you would know that the story being told to the ignorant masses is misinformation. If you have had the virus, then there is no need for the jab. Just like if you have had tetanus, whooping cough, measles, mumps or rubella. If you lived through them you gained natural immunity.
Tetanus vaccines have been studied long term and their effectiveness proven.....we can't say the same for C19.

People in the old days knew that children do not suffer with viruses as badly as adults do, and so they tried to deliberately infect their children as that they would get mildly sick and gain immunity.

Early treatments mean that a large percentage of cases would never need to go to hospital in the first place. This is the experience overseas. If the people dying from C19 have two major contributing factors....i.e. obesity and underlying health issues, then the number of deaths from the virus are overinflated.
The virus did not take these people out, but was merely the straw that broke the camel's back in their health condition. A case of influenza would have probably had the same outcome.
But that doesn't mean we forego vaccines.
I am not suggesting that we forego vaccines.....but that we must be cautious until these prove to be safe long term. People have died from receiving the shots....how ironic to die whist trying to save yourself from death.
To date there have been 222,406,582 confirmed cases of C19 globally ...which translates into 222,406,582 less vaccinations that are now necessary.
There are 4,592,934 reported deaths, which, if early intervention therapies were implemented, a good percentage of these people may have been saved.

I am hearing that a good number of those in ICU were fully vaccinated.....so what is wrong with this picture?
Israel's experience is barely being spoken about.
(I would also like to note that the doctor is not an expert in immunology. He is an expert in kidney and heart disease. I found an article here that provides counter-information to some of his claims: https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... ccullough/ )
You don't really think that an equally qualified dissenting voice was going to be allowed to question the way things are done, do you? All such voices are silenced. Censorship of those equally qualified has to make you ask why...doesn't it?
If the vaccines were not effective, then what would be the point in recommending them for anyone living in close quarters?

The letter also states that 99% of jws (in the US) who have been hospitalized or who have died from covid were not vaccinated. (I don't know how accurate that is; the stats here in Canada are not that high for the general population - the majority of those hospitalized and in ICU are not vaccinated or are partially vaccinated, but I don't know the percentage of each). The letter also states other beneficial reasons for getting the vaccine (travel, possible restrictions based on vaccination status in some places), but also health benefits.
The reasons for not getting vaccinated are many, not the least of which is the absence of long term studies. It generally takes up to 10 years to get approval for any vaccine.....JW's are as subject to mainstream media as anyone else.
If it was going to make their work impossible, then they would have gotten the jab for that reason, or that they believed in the efficacy of the vaccine. We are not told what to do, but circumstances will dictate our actions as we decide for ourselves what to do. I am grateful to have the option of waiting for now...but that may change in the future as pressure increases. This virus will impact on us for a long time to come, so we will learn to deal with it as we go along. In the meantime, I will boost my own immunity with all the recommended vitamin and mineral supplements and take all the recommended precautions. But I will avoid the jab for as long as possible.

Also to be considered, is that our brotherhood is global and many who have passed away lived in countries where medical services are poorly equipped to handle large numbers of contagious people. In India, e.g. people were dying from a lack of oxygen supply.....something that would not happen in a first world country.
Always what I post is my opinion, according to my understanding.

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Re: Do we now have a treatment for covid-19?

Post #30

Post by Clownboat »

Jemima wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:43 am Replying to tam in post #28
Before getting into your post, I did watch the video you posted and have a couple of comments. Some of the things that doctor has said have been shown to be inaccurate,
Shown by whom to be inaccurate? Pick your source.....if each are equally qualified, then Dr Robert Malone (the inventor of mRNA technology used in the Pfizer and Moderna vaccs) is equal to any voice on this topic.....and even he was sounding a warning about long term adverse reactions, but they have been removed from public view.
but lets just go with the basic statement that there are treatments for covid-19.

Couple of points on that:

1 - there is no either/or. There is no treatment OR vaccine. Treatments are fine, good, for those who have contracted a disease, any disease. But that doesn't mean you forego a vaccine. Vaccines are about preventing contraction of disease (especially for the greater population), protecting oneself and one's neighbors, and/or for ensuring milder symptoms when breakthrough cases occur.
According to the medical experts that I have listened to, that is not accurate. If you have had C19 and recovered, then you do not need the vax. You have natural long lasting immunity, which is superior to any vax. The very fact that you recovered from the virus is proof that you made the antibodies necessary to defeat it.

So there is treatment for the virus available, with approved therapies that have proven to be effective as both early treatments and preventatives in many countries which did not have access to the vaccines due to cost and availability. The studies are being ignored or dismissed as misinformation. But its not misinformation at all.....it just disagrees with the institutions who have a vested interest in the vast profits that are being made with these vaccines....into the billions of dollars and climbing with each jab or booster shot. The suggestion is now two...three or more!
2 - Treatments can help in some cases, but not all cases. We can treat meningitis, but people still die from it. We can treat tetanus, but that doesn't mean you would EVER want to go through the agony of having it.
Do you know how the human immune system works? Because if you do, then you would know that the story being told to the ignorant masses is misinformation. If you have had the virus, then there is no need for the jab. Just like if you have had tetanus, whooping cough, measles, mumps or rubella. If you lived through them you gained natural immunity.
Tetanus vaccines have been studied long term and their effectiveness proven.....we can't say the same for C19.

People in the old days knew that children do not suffer with viruses as badly as adults do, and so they tried to deliberately infect their children as that they would get mildly sick and gain immunity.

Early treatments mean that a large percentage of cases would never need to go to hospital in the first place. This is the experience overseas. If the people dying from C19 have two major contributing factors....i.e. obesity and underlying health issues, then the number of deaths from the virus are overinflated.
The virus did not take these people out, but was merely the straw that broke the camel's back in their health condition. A case of influenza would have probably had the same outcome.
But that doesn't mean we forego vaccines.
I am not suggesting that we forego vaccines.....but that we must be cautious until these prove to be safe long term. People have died from receiving the shots....how ironic to die whist trying to save yourself from death.
To date there have been 222,406,582 confirmed cases of C19 globally ...which translates into 222,406,582 less vaccinations that are now necessary.
There are 4,592,934 reported deaths, which, if early intervention therapies were implemented, a good percentage of these people may have been saved.

I am hearing that a good number of those in ICU were fully vaccinated.....so what is wrong with this picture?
Israel's experience is barely being spoken about.
(I would also like to note that the doctor is not an expert in immunology. He is an expert in kidney and heart disease. I found an article here that provides counter-information to some of his claims: https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... ccullough/ )
You don't really think that an equally qualified dissenting voice was going to be allowed to question the way things are done, do you? All such voices are silenced. Censorship of those equally qualified has to make you ask why...doesn't it?
If the vaccines were not effective, then what would be the point in recommending them for anyone living in close quarters?

The letter also states that 99% of jws (in the US) who have been hospitalized or who have died from covid were not vaccinated. (I don't know how accurate that is; the stats here in Canada are not that high for the general population - the majority of those hospitalized and in ICU are not vaccinated or are partially vaccinated, but I don't know the percentage of each). The letter also states other beneficial reasons for getting the vaccine (travel, possible restrictions based on vaccination status in some places), but also health benefits.
The reasons for not getting vaccinated are many, not the least of which is the absence of long term studies. It generally takes up to 10 years to get approval for any vaccine.....JW's are as subject to mainstream media as anyone else.
If it was going to make their work impossible, then they would have gotten the jab for that reason, or that they believed in the efficacy of the vaccine. We are not told what to do, but circumstances will dictate our actions as we decide for ourselves what to do. I am grateful to have the option of waiting for now...but that may change in the future as pressure increases. This virus will impact on us for a long time to come, so we will learn to deal with it as we go along. In the meantime, I will boost my own immunity with all the recommended vitamin and mineral supplements and take all the recommended precautions. But I will avoid the jab for as long as possible.

Also to be considered, is that our brotherhood is global and many who have passed away lived in countries where medical services are poorly equipped to handle large numbers of contagious people. In India, e.g. people were dying from a lack of oxygen supply.....something that would not happen in a first world country.
By rejecting the establilshed science, flat earthers place themselves in a position of power.
Suddenly they feel like they are the experts, and that is a good feeling. Why wouldn't they want to maintian that feeling?

Is it possible that this is what is happening above? I ask because it doesn't sound like you are actually a scientist or someone that would have an understanding (more than the average that is) on the subject.

Daughter: Mommy, why don't I have that mark on my shoulder like you?
Mother: Oh that? That's from my polio vaccination.
Daughter: Why don't I have that?
Mother: Because I did...

My mother is an anti vaxer. I can tell that she feels very authoritative when she looks you in the eye to inform you that all vaccinated people will get severly sick within 2 years.

In truth, she knows much less then those who have dedicated their lives to such studies.

It's an odd phenominon to me...
Want to know when the next eclipse will happen? No problem looking to scientists who study such things.
However, when talking about the shape of the earth or vaccinations, then we cannot trust the scientists. Odd phenominon IMO and I place the blame on human egos and the desire to have a preceived authority.

Very possibly how we got all the competing god concepts that we now have. Inventing an answer and pretending to know. Convince enough people and you can be a shaman/preist or what have you.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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