The Gay agenda

[lastcallhall]

This is an article from Jim Daly on Foxnews and it looks like what a few of us conservative christians believe is the gay agenda moving forward to get marriage passed.

I am, naturally, personally opposed to the legalization of same-sex marriage for the simple but profound reason that it violates and contradicts the sacred text of the Bible, which I believe to be true and inspired. But on what basis should I expect people who dont believe as I do to likewise oppose same-sex marriage?

On the basis of logic, reason, common sense and the fact that preservation of traditional marriage is in the best interest of the common good, as evidenced by any number of factors, including reams of social science data and thousands of years of history.

Any discussion on the definition of marriage incites strong emotional reaction. And those of us within the orthodox Christian community understand that many in the culture see this issue very differently, and hold to very passionate views on the subject. We understand that on this matter, in some circles, that never the twain shall meet. Nevertheless, this difference of opinion does not preclude us the privilege of championing a principle we hold dear, especially since its our Christian faith that motivates us to support and defend what we believe to be Gods blueprint for human relationship. In the last half-century, progressives have exercised their own rights of cultural engagement, aggressively championing sweeping cultural changes on numerous levels. Although we may disagree with them, we certainly dont begrudge them the right to engage the process. But in this pursuit to redefine marriage, wouldnt it make sense to consider the outcomes of prior social reengineering efforts?

In the late 1960s, no-fault divorce promised to simplify, streamline and decrease the contentiousness surrounding marital breakup. Instead, it only encouraged struggling spouses to throw in the towel. Fathers abandoned their families in droves. Poverty levels skyrocketed. Prison populations increased at dramatic levels, a consequence of kids now growing up without a father in the home.

A few years later, in 1973, the Supreme Court legalized abortion in all 50 states. Supporters heralded a new era of responsibility, where every child would be a wanted child. Tragically, over 48 million babies have now been aborted and the beauty of life has been cheapened as a result, while child abuse has skyrocketed.

The expansion of welfare promised to alleviate human suffering. While in some ways noble in intent, it disincentivized work, undermined the family unit and created a perpetual cycle of dependency and poverty. Fathers were no longer needed to be an integral part of the family.

Cohabitation is yet another experiment which promised to liberate couples from the burden of marriage. The number of couples living together outside of marriage has increased ten-fold between 1960 and 2000. Over 12 million unmarried partners now live together in the United States. The result? Cohabitation not only decreases a persons appetite for marriage, it also increases the risk of divorce, should the couple ever tie the knot.

Further, a home with two unmarried partners has proven to be the most dangerous place for children in the U.S. Children who live with their mother and boyfriend are 11 times more likely to be sexually, physically, or emotionally abused than children living with their married biological parents.

In each example of social reengineering Ive noted, progressives promised good things. Sadly, the exact opposite has happened. However well-meaning the motivation, reengineering what God has designed is not only unwise, but radical and dangerous, too.

Without evidence of success to which to point, supporters of these ill-fated ventures are left with but one choice: If you cant change unfavorable outcomes, you change the minds of people as to what is considered favorable and good.

Here lies the last great frontier and the last gasp for those determined to re-engineer marriage. Those committed to this form of radicalism have systematically broken down the cultural barrier to same sex marriage by desensitizing people on the issue, stigmatizing those who oppose the movement and potentially criminalizing anyone who stands in opposition to them. The irony in our cultural discussion currently, is if you support traditional marriage, you are the one perceived by the cultural elite to be the radical.

Consider the case of a New Mexico couple who own and operate a photography business. When they kindly refused to shoot a lesbian marriage ceremony, they were summarily brought up on human rights violations by the New Mexico Human Rights Commission. They were fined for not accepting the job. While on the other hand, Christian organizations are now being singled out and suppliers are threatening to no longer supply them with critical support functions like computer technology because of their stand in opposition to same-sex marriage. Those in favor of same-sex marriage do not see the contradiction in these two examples. One group must perform the services and is fined for not doing so (in the name of human rights); the other is allowed to default on their contract because of alleged bigoted behavior on the part of the religious organization (with no regard for religious expression).

If religious liberty is lost in America, we will cease to be the nation our Founders intended us to be. Our rights will no longer be derived from God but from man, and therefore, dangerously beholden to political despots. I dont think Thomas Jefferson intended that to be the outcome for our great nation when he wrote the famous Danbury Baptist Church letter which mentioned the separation of church and state. Contrary to conventional wisdom, President Jefferson was expressing a concern that the church needed to be protected from the state, not the state from the church. It appears his fears are now being realized.

Jim Daly is president and host of "Focus on the Family."


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/05/ ... z1NJdkc5AN


The questions I have for debate are:

1. Is what happened to the New Mexico couple proof that gay marriage will threaten christians and the church from living our faith?

2. If gay marriage is legal in the entire US would churches be forced to recognize gay couples and be forced to hire gay people to positions even if that would be against our beliefs?

[Darias]

Baptists are Christians right?

Bob

Westboro are not Baptist or christinas, they do not represent any christian I know or any church or pastor I have ever heard. They are sick people.

Aside from this fanatical group, Christian attitudes towards gays, especially in this country, have had devastating consequences around the world.

More specifically, major Christian leaders like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who have said things like this:

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
_____
SOURCE

I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" --on the 9/11 attacks
_____
SOURCE

"I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." "Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld
_____
SOURCE

Those above statements have no doubt had major impacts upon an evangelical Uganda, which in recent years has been attempting to pass a bill which criminalizes homosexuality -- and until just recently called for capital punishment of gays.

Uganda is a country where American-style evangelical Christianity is exploding, and there are close links between many American anti-gay preachers, politicians, and activists, and their Ugandan counterparts. As Jeff Sharlet has reported, Bahati, the Anti-Homosexuality Bills sponsor, is the secretary of the Ugandan branch of The Family, the secretive American evangelical organization whose members include Sens. James Inhofe, Jim DeMint, and Tom Coburn. Martin Ssempa, a Pentecostal preacher who has championed the bill, was a protg of Rick Warren and, during the Bush administration, a recipient of at least $90,000 of American aid earmarked for abstinence promotion. Another major anti-gay activist, Stephen Langa, the head of Ugandas Family Life Network, is an affiliate of the Phoenix-based group Disciple Nations Alliance.

The point is not that American Christians urged their Ugandan counterparts to try to institute the death penalty for homosexuality"they didnt. After much public pressure, Warren has spoken out against the bill, and the Disciple Nations Alliance issued a somewhat lukewarm objection, noting concerns but insisting on the right of sovereign nations to establish their own laws.

Yet the ideology underlying the bill comes from American conservatives. It is Americans who have elaborated a vision of homosexuality as a satanic global conspiracy bent on destroying societys foundations, akin to the Jewish octopus in classic anti-Semitic narratives. According to Warren Throckmorton, an evangelical psychology professor once associated with the ex-gay movement, when Ugandas anti-gay activists speak about homosexuality, they cite materials by Scott Lively and Paul Cameron, two of the fiercest American opponents of the so-called homosexual agenda.
_____
SOURCE

Sure there are some fringe groups out there who don't represent Jesus at all...

But if you think many Christians bare no blame for whats happening to gays around the world, you are sorely mistaken...

And if you want to insert a no-true-Scotsman here... you can if you want to...

But it doesn't change the fact that people around the world who call themselves Christians and who are in every way shape and form "Christian" - hold these views ... and that those views are deadly, for at least some of us...

[SailingCyclops]

Aside from this fanatical group, Christian attitudes towards gays, especially in this country, have had devastating consequences around the world.
[...]
But it doesn't change the fact that people around the world who call themselves Christians and who are in every way shape and form "Christian" - hold these views ... and that those views are deadly, for at least some of us...

This is horrifying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellow ... ization%29

The Fellowship and Uganda

The Fellowship, through Representative Joe Pitts (R.-Pa.), redirected millions in US aid to Uganda from sex education programs to abstinence programs, thereby causing an evangelical revival, which included condom burnings.

In a November 2009 NPR interview, Sharlet alleged that Ugandan Fellowship associates David Bahati and Nsaba Buturo were behind the recent proposed bill in Uganda that called for the death penalty for gays.[87]

Sharlet reveals that David Bahati, the Uganda legislator backing the bill, reportedly first floated the idea of executing gays during The Family's Uganda National Prayer Breakfast in 2008.[88] Sharlet described Bahati as a "rising star" in the Fellowship who has attended the National Prayer Breakfast in the United States and, until the news over the gay execution law broke, was scheduled to attend the 2010 U.S. National Prayer Breakfast.[88]

Fellowship member Bob Hunter gave an interview to NPR in December 2009 in which he acknowledged Bahati's connection but argued that no American associates support the bill.[89]

President Barack Obama, in his address to the Fellowship at their National Prayer Breakfast in early 2010, directly criticized the Uganda legislation targeting gay people for execution. In calling for a renewed emphasis on faith and civility, Obama stated, "We may disagree about gay marriage, but surely we can agree that it is unconscionable to target gays and lesbians for who they are " whether it's here in the United States or, as Hillary [Clinton] mentioned, more extremely in odious laws that are being proposed most recently in Uganda."[90]

These U.S. Evangelicals are actively supporting capital punishment for gays. Most members of this "fellowship" are current and past sitting members of the U.S. congress. All "Christians", see: The Family: DCs C Street Group Tied To Proposed Death Penalty for Gays in Uganda

In league with this bunch is this: The Las Vegas Church Working to Kill Gay People in Uganda

Makes one want to severely limit religious freedoms in this country! These folks had better be careful, the backlash to this Christian insanity may be severe. When religion begins to impede human rights, and threaten people's lives, perhaps it's time to stop religion! It's certainly time to re-evaluate religion's place in government in this country, the separation between church and state seems to have been blurred.

Bob

[lastcallhall]

More specifically, major Christian leaders like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who have said things like this:

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
_____
SOURCE

I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" --on the 9/11 attacks
_____
SOURCE

"I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." "Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld
_____
SOURCE

None of the above quotes show any hatred or violence to gays. They are speaking an opinion that God's judgement is on our country but he is not telling anyone to hurt, kill, or in anyway harm anyone who is gay.

Those above statements have no doubt had major impacts upon an evangelical Uganda, which in recent years has been attempting to pass a bill which criminalizes homosexuality -- and until just recently called for capital punishment of gays.

Uganda is a country where American-style evangelical Christianity is exploding, and there are close links between many American anti-gay preachers, politicians, and activists, and their Ugandan counterparts. As Jeff Sharlet has reported, Bahati, the Anti-Homosexuality Bills sponsor, is the secretary of the Ugandan branch of The Family, the secretive American evangelical organization whose members include Sens. James Inhofe, Jim DeMint, and Tom Coburn. Martin Ssempa, a Pentecostal preacher who has championed the bill, was a protg of Rick Warren and, during the Bush administration, a recipient of at least $90,000 of American aid earmarked for abstinence promotion. Another major anti-gay activist, Stephen Langa, the head of Ugandas Family Life Network, is an affiliate of the Phoenix-based group Disciple Nations Alliance.

The point is not that American Christians urged their Ugandan counterparts to try to institute the death penalty for homosexuality"they didnt. After much public pressure, Warren has spoken out against the bill, and the Disciple Nations Alliance issued a somewhat lukewarm objection, noting concerns but insisting on the right of sovereign nations to establish their own laws.

Yet the ideology underlying the bill comes from American conservatives. It is Americans who have elaborated a vision of homosexuality as a satanic global conspiracy bent on destroying societys foundations, akin to the Jewish octopus in classic anti-Semitic narratives. According to Warren Throckmorton, an evangelical psychology professor once associated with the ex-gay movement, when Ugandas anti-gay activists speak about homosexuality, they cite materials by Scott Lively and Paul Cameron, two of the fiercest American opponents of the so-called homosexual agenda.
_____
SOURCE

Sure there are some fringe groups out there who don't represent Jesus at all...

But if you think many Christians bare no blame for whats happening to gays around the world, you are sorely mistaken...

And if you want to insert a no-true-Scotsman here... you can if you want to...

But it doesn't change the fact that people around the world who call themselves Christians and who are in every way shape and form "Christian" - hold these views ... and that those views are deadly, for at least some of us...

If a christian is trying to pass a law to put homosexuals in prison it is wrong and I would not support that at all. Like I have said several times in this thread we now live in the state of grace and we do not punish sin on spot. We recognize sin and ask for repentance but should not punish any sinner because as it has been pointed out on this thread as well there would be many more of the old testament laws that would have to be punished as well. We are to hate the sin, not the sinner and hope the person comes to repentance.

[Nilloc James]

I find it hard to believe (yes yes make a joke) that homosexuals have anything to apologize for. I hardly view an archaic collection of laws from a dead society as a model for 21st centuy society which has the advantage of experiance; like the enlightenment.

[Jester]

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[Darias]

More specifically, major Christian leaders like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who have said things like this:

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
_____
SOURCE

I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" --on the 9/11 attacks
_____
SOURCE

"I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." "Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld
_____
SOURCE

None of the above quotes show any hatred or violence to gays. They are speaking an opinion that God's judgement is on our country but he is not telling anyone to hurt, kill, or in anyway harm anyone who is gay.

lastcallhall,

Looking at these statements, I do not see any direct calls to violence, but I sure do see hatred. And it's not hard to see the connection between their statements and the bill in Uganda... it's just not a stretch at all. This is because the claims they make about gays and the consequences of tolerating gay people forms the whole rationale for the bill in the first place.

Read what Rev. Falwell said; he said that the deadly AIDS virus is not only the physical embodiment of God's wrath upon gays -- but also a deadly punishment upon a society that tolerates gay people -- not homosexual relationships or gay-marriage -- but gay people. Aside from making God look like a murderer, is that not a hateful thing to say about homosexuals?

He also said gays caused 9/11. In saying that he meant that God was with the terrorists, and by His will, God sent them to obliterate thousands of people into ash -- all because we tolerate gay people. Not hateful? Well, then this must be a different definition of love that I've never heard of -- if nothing else it has to be pure ignorance on his part.

Also right after he made that statement, Robertson agreed with him wholeheartedly.

And Robertson has made similar statements before about the Haitians -- that 10s of thousands of people, many of them children, most of them impoverished Christians perished -- not because of a natural disaster, but because of God's wrath. They had it coming.

How is it that Christians are supposed to love, be merciful, forgive, not kill, not judge, etc. and God pretty much does the complete opposite? Is it because His omnipotence entitles Him to do whatever He wants and still be recognized and praised as being "Just" and "Good?"

Is God really malevolent, or are some concepts of God just demonizing? I certainly believe that God is both just and loving -- but I don't know how people can view God in such a manner unless:

A. They have hatred in their heart
B. "They know not what they do/say"
C. All of the above.

I'm going to go ahead and say C.

And especially so for Pat Robertson, at least regarding his views towards gays. Watch his candid moment while on TV:

[center][youtube][/youtube][/center]

He called the caller "a homo." But hey, What Would Republican Jesus Do?

[center][/center]

Those above statements have no doubt had major impacts upon an evangelical Uganda, which in recent years has been attempting to pass a bill which criminalizes homosexuality -- and until just recently called for capital punishment of gays.

Uganda is a country where American-style evangelical Christianity is exploding, and there are close links between many American anti-gay preachers, politicians, and activists, and their Ugandan counterparts. As Jeff Sharlet has reported, Bahati, the Anti-Homosexuality Bills sponsor, is the secretary of the Ugandan branch of The Family, the secretive American evangelical organization whose members include Sens. James Inhofe, Jim DeMint, and Tom Coburn. Martin Ssempa, a Pentecostal preacher who has championed the bill, was a protg of Rick Warren and, during the Bush administration, a recipient of at least $90,000 of American aid earmarked for abstinence promotion. Another major anti-gay activist, Stephen Langa, the head of Ugandas Family Life Network, is an affiliate of the Phoenix-based group Disciple Nations Alliance.

The point is not that American Christians urged their Ugandan counterparts to try to institute the death penalty for homosexuality"they didnt. After much public pressure, Warren has spoken out against the bill, and the Disciple Nations Alliance issued a somewhat lukewarm objection, noting concerns but insisting on the right of sovereign nations to establish their own laws.

Yet the ideology underlying the bill comes from American conservatives. It is Americans who have elaborated a vision of homosexuality as a satanic global conspiracy bent on destroying societys foundations, akin to the Jewish octopus in classic anti-Semitic narratives. According to Warren Throckmorton, an evangelical psychology professor once associated with the ex-gay movement, when Ugandas anti-gay activists speak about homosexuality, they cite materials by Scott Lively and Paul Cameron, two of the fiercest American opponents of the so-called homosexual agenda.
_____
SOURCE

Sure there are some fringe groups out there who don't represent Jesus at all...

But if you think many Christians bare no blame for whats happening to gays around the world, you are sorely mistaken...

And if you want to insert a no-true-Scotsman here... you can if you want to...

But it doesn't change the fact that people around the world who call themselves Christians and who are in every way shape and form "Christian" - hold these views ... and that those views are deadly, for at least some of us...

If a christian is trying to pass a law to put homosexuals in prison it is wrong and I would not support that at all. Like I have said several times in this thread we now live in the state of grace and we do not punish sin on spot. We recognize sin and ask for repentance but should not punish any sinner because as it has been pointed out on this thread as well there would be many more of the old testament laws that would have to be punished as well. We are to hate the sin, not the sinner and hope the person comes to repentance.

Of course the imprisonment and capital punishment of homosexuals is wrong -- and you don't need a Bible to reach this conclusion. In fact, if you based your actions solely upon the Bible (or at least how it is filtered through fundamentalist teachings) -- putting all emotion and empathy aside for the sake of God's will -- one would no doubt support such a bill.

But you are right, we do live in a state of Grace. At least that's what is implied in the New Testament. However, as also mentioned in the New Testament, sinners must be shunned and given over to Satan. Even devout followers who fail to give enough of their money are cut down by God's spirit.

The grace given to us by Christ' death doesn't seam to satisfy his wrath at all.

It's funny how "hate the sin, love the sinner" only targets gays. Even if the New Testament is the standard -- the other sinners... people who divorce and remarry are adulterers , and as long as they stay married a second time, they are living an adulterous lifestyle. Yet such people are legally allowed to remarry, and many are pastors of churches -- and no one is preaching against it. This because it is a cultural norm that everyone has accepted -- gay marriage however, is still a taboo, and that's why its so often condemned in churches today.

Women who wear gold and fine garments; women who braid their hair, have short hair, or fail to cover their hair; and women who have the habit of talking to their husbands in church, or preaching in church, etc. -- all these people are living in a "sinful lifestyle" according to Paul, AKA God's infallible Holy Word (I guess this only applies when Paul is speaking of Homosexuals).

Yet that's all fine by us. Paul must have just been giving his cultural opinion there...

I bet if you go back in time and ask a Christian from the early 20th century if this is okay, he'd give you the same reply I get when I ask you if you think homosexuality is okay.

[Strider324]

Baptists are Christians right?

Bob

Westboro are not Baptist or christinas, they do not represent any christian I know or any church or pastor I have ever heard. They are sick people.

Translation - "I am embarrassed that there are Christians who act in accordance with the Bible and honor God by actually acting on His decree that Fags should be killed, so I am desperately distancing myself from THESE Christians because they...well....they just aren't REAL Christians. And for the record, ANY examples you produce of Christians being hateful and ignorant will be summarily dismissed under this same....um... 'logic' (cough, sputter)."

[East of Eden]

Baptists are Christians right?

Bob

Westboro are not Baptist or christinas, they do not represent any christian I know or any church or pastor I have ever heard. They are sick people.

Translation - "I am embarrassed that there are Christians who act in accordance with the Bible and honor God by actually acting on His decree that Fags should be killed, so I am desperately distancing myself from THESE Christians because they...well....they just aren't REAL Christians. And for the record, ANY examples you produce of Christians being hateful and ignorant will be summarily dismissed under this same....um... 'logic' (cough, sputter)."

Stop making things up. As kooky as they are, the 60-member Westboro folks haven't hurt a fly.

[lastcallhall]

lastcallhall,

Looking at these statements, I do not see any direct calls to violence, but I sure do see hatred. And it's not hard to see the connection between their statements and the bill in Uganda... it's just not a stretch at all. This is because the claims they make about gays and the consequences of tolerating gay people forms the whole rationale for the bill in the first place.

From what I read in the above statements is Falwell and Robertson are making statements that certain sin is bringing God's judgement on people and America. I don't see the connection to a bill to put people to death or in prison but we all see it different. Would you then say liberals who blame America for the 9/11 attacks hateful? I have heard everything from Bush did it to our foreign policy causes the hate or our support of Israel was the cause and we should stop our support of Israel. Would they be anti sematic then?

Read what Rev. Falwell said; he said that the deadly AIDS virus is not only the physical embodiment of God's wrath upon gays -- but also a deadly punishment upon a society that tolerates gay people -- not homosexual relationships or gay-marriage -- but gay people. Aside from making God look like a murderer, is that not a hateful thing to say about homosexuals?

I don't see it as hateful because God destroyed Sodom in the OT because of the homosexual lifestyle, I don't agree with him because will live in the state of grace now but at some point the blessings of God will be taken away if we continue to openly sin. I am not just saying the homosexual lifestyle I am talking ALL sin because no sin is worse than any other.

He also said gays caused 9/11. In saying that he meant that God was with the terrorists, and by His will, God sent them to obliterate thousands of people into ash -- all because we tolerate gay people. Not hateful? Well, then this must be a different definition of love that I've never heard of -- if nothing else it has to be pure ignorance on his part.

Again look at Sodom, God will eventually judge sin

And Robertson has made similar statements before about the Haitians -- that 10s of thousands of people, many of them children, most of them impoverished Christians perished -- not because of a natural disaster, but because of God's wrath. They had it coming.

All I can say is I disagree with Pat Robertson

How is it that Christians are supposed to love, be merciful, forgive, not kill, not judge, etc. and God pretty much does the complete opposite? Is it because His omnipotence entitles Him to do whatever He wants and still be recognized and praised as being "Just" and "Good?"

We are to love on people and I will be the first to admit christians usually do a very poor job of loving on people and we make Jesus look bad a lot. We as humans can't understand why sin is so untolerable to God and I don't know why the punishments seem so harsh. I figure I will understand on the other side. But because we think it is harsh or don't understand does not mean it is not a just punishment.

Is God really malevolent, or are some concepts of God just demonizing? I certainly believe that God is both just and loving -- but I don't know how people can view God in such a manner unless:

A. They have hatred in their heart
B. "They know not what they do/say"
C. All of the above.

I'm going to go ahead and say C.

I don't pretend to know what is in anyone's heart, I usually give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove me wrong. I try to not judge a persons motives or heart.

It's funny how "hate the sin, love the sinner" only targets gays. Even if the New Testament is the standard -- the other sinners... people who divorce and remarry are adulterers , and as long as they stay married a second time, they are living an adulterous lifestyle.

What if they divorced prior to accepting Jesus and have since repented? This is a bad argument as most homosexuals don't view the lifestyle as sin and will not repent, big difference. If a person who is a christian got divorced and then remarried and did not repent I feel they would be treated as any other unrepentant sinner.

Yet such people are legally allowed to remarry, and many are pastors of churches -- and no one is preaching against it. This because it is a cultural norm that everyone has accepted -- gay marriage however, is still a taboo, and that's why its so often condemned in churches today.

Again if they are in open sin, at least my church, would ask them to resign if a pastor.

Women who wear gold and fine garments; women who braid their hair, have short hair, or fail to cover their hair; and women who have the habit of talking to their husbands in church, or preaching in church, etc. -- all these people are living in a "sinful lifestyle" according to Paul, AKA God's infallible Holy Word(I guess this only applies when Paul is speaking of Homosexuals).

Yet that's all fine by us. Paul must have just been giving his cultural opinion there...

No Paul does not call any of those an abomination or sin. The OT do not call any of that sin. Our church do not allow women to be lead pastor. Homosexuality is called sin and if he had called the other things sin we would not let them happen.

[East of Eden]

The grace given to us by Christ' death doesn't seam to satisfy his wrath at all.

Repentance always precedes forgiveness. If God didn't spare His chosen people Israel, he sure withhold his judgement from us. Ancient Israel was in a constant cycle of apostacy and repentance, with the repentant periods being exceptional. God's judgement consisted of wars that didn't go so well, drought, flood, bad economy, etc. Hmmmm, those things sound familiar.

It's funny how "hate the sin, love the sinner" only targets gays. Even if the New Testament is the standard -- the other sinners... people who divorce and remarry are adulterers , and as long as they stay married a second time, they are living an adulterous lifestyle. Yet such people are legally allowed to remarry, and many are pastors of churches -- and no one is preaching against it. This because it is a cultural norm that everyone has accepted -- gay marriage however, is still a taboo, and that's why its so often condemned in churches today.

Serial monogamy is also wrong, and lots of people preach against it.