Does science benefit from the inclusion of religion? Which religion? How? Be specific. Do the benefits outweigh the difficulties?JP Cusick wrote:What I said and what I meant was attached to this saying: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
So if we take that saying literally as I did, then without religion one is handicapped as "lame" and without science those are handicapped by being "blind".
Science without religion is lame,
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Science without religion is lame,
Post #1Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #171[Replying to DrNoGods in post #170]
Logic will not lead to the same conclusion if different information is used.
Those that received the vaccine shot believed that it would stop the covid virus.
Those that did not receive the vaccine saw no need to receive a vaccine on a virus that has a 99% survivability rate and that is with the death from flu almost going to 0.
Both are logical but the input information is different.
Rational Def: based on or in accordance with reason or logicOf course, but "rational" is a subjective term. I thought it was rational to get two covid vaccine shots back in March/April and a booster shot last week as well. There are others who think it is not rational to get the covid vaccine. Are they "thinking rationally" and I wasn't? It depends on who you ask.
Logic will not lead to the same conclusion if different information is used.
Those that received the vaccine shot believed that it would stop the covid virus.
Those that did not receive the vaccine saw no need to receive a vaccine on a virus that has a 99% survivability rate and that is with the death from flu almost going to 0.
Both are logical but the input information is different.
That is not what the Boltzmann brain theory, computer simulation, or the hologram theory say.You are assuming that you are even made of material matter.
This doesn't require any assumptions. I am indeed made of material matter, as are you and every other human:
Science can only test for objects that are made of matter. God is not made of matter, He created matter or condensed energy. Science has no idea what energy even is. Science can describe how it behaves and how it can change form but the essence of energy is unknown.But it is not a foregone conclusion that gods exist, or that humans have afterlives, etc. These are full-on assumptions lacking any hard evidence, yet form the basis of entire religions.
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #172[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #171]
An invisible silent thing which can be 'seen and 'heard' by the effect it has on matter.
The Effect of Sound and The UniverseScience can only test for objects that are made of matter. God is not made of matter, He created matter or condensed energy. Science has no idea what energy even is. Science can describe how it behaves and how it can change form but the essence of energy is unknown.
An invisible silent thing which can be 'seen and 'heard' by the effect it has on matter.
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #173I got my shots fully aware they only offered a limited level of personal protection.EarthScienceguy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:44 am Those that received the vaccine shot believed that it would stop the covid virus.
While knowing full well that bunch over yonder'd refuse any measure that infringed on their 'freedom', thereby risking spread and mutation, and all such as that.
One word...Those that did not receive the vaccine saw no need to receive a vaccine on a virus that has a 99% survivability rate and that is with the death from flu almost going to 0.
Herman Cain Award
You and logic really need to meet, then sit down for a talk to get acquainted.Both are logical but the input information is different.
Such proponents should be expected to support these deals.EarthScienceGuy wrote:That is not what the Boltzmann brain theory, computer simulation, or the hologram theory say.This doesn't require any assumptions. I am indeed made of material matter, as are you and every other human:
And religion can only test for how proud someone is to believe it.Science can only test for objects that are made of matter.
I challenge you to show you speak truth regarding the following...God is not made of matter, He created matter or condensed energy.
1. God can create
2. God created matter
3. Or condensed energy
That's hilarious coming from someone who claims to know the properties of a god they can't even show exists.Science has no idea what energy even is. Science can describe how it behaves and how it can change form but the essence of energy is unknown.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #174[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #171]
What does the "essense of energy" even mean?
And why should be believe that any of these ideas (they are far from being theories at the moment) are valid? None have any solid evidence to support them (Boltzmann brain is often referred to as a reductio ad absurdum argument). Until they get more traction, they aren't theories but unsupported hypotheses, ideas or arguments.That is not what the Boltzmann brain theory, computer simulation, or the hologram theory say.
Are photons made of matter? They have no mass, but we can certainly measure their properties in many different ways, test for their presence, etc. Gods are imaginary, so can be created willy nilly by anyone and ascribed qualities and abilities limited only by the human imagination. When you have that degree of freedom, you can make up anything and claim it is true because you thought of it or declared it so.Science can only test for objects that are made of matter. God is not made of matter, He created matter or condensed energy. Science has no idea what energy even is. Science can describe how it behaves and how it can change form but the essence of energy is unknown.
What does the "essense of energy" even mean?
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #175[Replying to DrNoGods in post #174]
the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, which determines its character.
Search "energy"
:1: the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.
:2: power derived from the utilization of physical or chemical resources, especially to provide light and heat or to work machines.
In the context presented, I took "essence of energy" to mean "An invisible silent thing which can be 'seen and 'heard' by the effect it has on matter."
Search "essence"What does the "essence of energy" even mean?
the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, which determines its character.
Search "energy"
:1: the strength and vitality required for sustained physical or mental activity.
:2: power derived from the utilization of physical or chemical resources, especially to provide light and heat or to work machines.
In the context presented, I took "essence of energy" to mean "An invisible silent thing which can be 'seen and 'heard' by the effect it has on matter."
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #176[Replying to William in post #175]
https://www.thoughtco.com/energy-defini ... es-2698976
Energy is a word we invented to describe something (the capacity of a physical system to perform work), but I don't see how it has an "essense" in terms of some intrinsic nature or indispensable quality. A word like love might fit that description, but energy to me seems like more of a cold, hard word describing a physics or chemistry concept.
In physics, energy is usually defined as the capacity of a physical system to perform work. Thoughtco have a short article:In the context presented, I took "essence of energy" to mean "An invisible silent thing which can be 'seen and 'heard' by the effect it has on matter."
https://www.thoughtco.com/energy-defini ... es-2698976
Energy is a word we invented to describe something (the capacity of a physical system to perform work), but I don't see how it has an "essense" in terms of some intrinsic nature or indispensable quality. A word like love might fit that description, but energy to me seems like more of a cold, hard word describing a physics or chemistry concept.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #177I would say by your description that you are a materialist in your world view and approach to existence.DrNoGods wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:20 pm [Replying to William in post #175]
In physics, energy is usually defined as the capacity of a physical system to perform work. Thoughtco have a short article:In the context presented, I took "essence of energy" to mean "An invisible silent thing which can be 'seen and 'heard' by the effect it has on matter."
https://www.thoughtco.com/energy-defini ... es-2698976
Energy is a word we invented to describe something (the capacity of a physical system to perform work), but I don't see how it has an "essense" in terms of some intrinsic nature or indispensable quality. A word like love might fit that description, but energy to me seems like more of a cold, hard word describing a physics or chemistry concept.
The capacity of a physical system to perform work = energy. Energy is the demonstration of something silent and otherwise unseen.
Perhaps the universe [energy/motion et al] was created through an act of love...silent and otherwise unseen...whereas the energy produced can be used differently...
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #178Onions do that to me.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #179[Replying to William in post #177]
I am exactly that, because I've yet to see any convincing evidence to refute that world view. I can't see consciousness as anything more than an emergent property of a working brain because by all observation only members of the animal kingdom possess consciousness (using the dictionary definition of the word), and specifically only those members that possess brains. If the brain is destroyed consciousness is lost. If it is damaged consciousness can be impaired. The correlation between having a working brain, and possessing consciousness, is too strong for me to believe that consciousness is anything special or magical.I would say by your description that you are a materialist in your world view and approach to existence.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
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Re: Science without religion is lame,
Post #180[Replying to DrNoGods in post #179]
Call something 'woo-woo' as if that somehow casts a spell of protection over ones sensibilities.
Consciousness is natural. It does not matter how vast it extends, or whether human dictionaries declare it only 'this' and 'that'.
Einstein's brain no longer functions as a vessel for Einstein's consciousness. Therefore the consciousness which was Einstein no longer exists as far as we can know.
What we can know though, is that information which Einstein projected into the world was carried along by consciousness, was useful to consciousness.
What we do know is that consciousness was the thing that made things happen, and without it, we could not be able to have peered into the depths of space to behold the awesome imagery reflected back at us - at consciousness itself.
Maybe it is worthy of being called 'special' and even 'magical' out of simple respect for it's existence, rather than through materialistic spitefulness, intent on worshiping the container while belittling what is contained, as if consciousness was merely a bi-product of the main event.
The materialist religion and its beliefs are no less destructive that any other religion.
Expressed like a true materialist believer.The correlation between having a working brain, and possessing consciousness, is too strong for me to believe that consciousness is anything special or magical.
Call something 'woo-woo' as if that somehow casts a spell of protection over ones sensibilities.
Consciousness is natural. It does not matter how vast it extends, or whether human dictionaries declare it only 'this' and 'that'.
Einstein's brain no longer functions as a vessel for Einstein's consciousness. Therefore the consciousness which was Einstein no longer exists as far as we can know.
What we can know though, is that information which Einstein projected into the world was carried along by consciousness, was useful to consciousness.
What we do know is that consciousness was the thing that made things happen, and without it, we could not be able to have peered into the depths of space to behold the awesome imagery reflected back at us - at consciousness itself.
Maybe it is worthy of being called 'special' and even 'magical' out of simple respect for it's existence, rather than through materialistic spitefulness, intent on worshiping the container while belittling what is contained, as if consciousness was merely a bi-product of the main event.
The materialist religion and its beliefs are no less destructive that any other religion.