Why be "good?"

[wgreen]

I would like to hear from some atheists and agnostics who believe in leading moral lives (helping others, being compassionate, not murdering, stealing, etc.). Why do you lead a moral life?

I don't understand why you would.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Bill

[wgreen]

Thanks for your input, folks.

I can certainly understand the motivation to do good that arises from the way it makes one feel, advantages it confers, etc., but is there any reason that I "ought" to be good?

You have provided me with your ideas on why "you" are good. What are your ideas on why others should be good?

Bill Green

[Aristarkos]

Thanks for your input, folks.

I can certainly understand the motivation to do good that arises from the way it makes one feel, advantages it confers, etc., but is there any reason that I "ought" to be good?

You have provided me with your ideas on why "you" are good. What are your ideas on why others should be good?

Bill Green

The advantages and feelings should be reason enough, but ultimately, people are free to choose to not follow the wisdom of being good.

I think the only addition reasons will bring us to issues of faith. You wanted to leave God out of this discussion; so faith in goodness and/or love? How does that grab ya?

[bernee51]

Thanks for your input, folks.

I can certainly understand the motivation to do good that arises from the way it makes one feel, advantages it confers, etc., but is there any reason that I "ought" to be good?

You have provided me with your ideas on why "you" are good. What are your ideas on why others should be good?

Bill Green

As it would appear that the default position is to seek happiness, fulfillment etc. I believe ethical behaviour, the following of which is more likely to lead to the benefits I listed, would be reason enough for anyone to behave in an ethical manner.

[Partialartist]

Monkey see, monkey do. If I don't respect someone's life, freedom and posessions, I can't honestly expect them to respect mine. While there is nothing "wrong" with a world of fear and chaos, most people don't want to die, or live in constant fear of their safety, so it's best to work towards our mutual survival. The purpose of life is to continue, through the individual and through future generations. That's where my morality comes from. Every other rule I follow is for my survival within society. It's selfish, but so is life.

[Bugmaster]

My answer is, basically, "because my Momma raised me right". I can't help but be approximately good, as inconvenient as it might be at times; the standards of moral behavior are indocrinated pretty deeply into my personality. I would argue that even Christians are good primarily for this reason, and not because of any conscious theological decisions on their part.

But, why should we be good, at all ?

Well, it seems that being good makes good logical sense: if you want to live in a society where you're safe from harm, you and everyone else have to give up your right to harm others -- or become el presidente, perhaps, and that's not for everyone.

Evolutionary-speaking (although, evolution and sociology don't entirely mix), societies that promoted goodness, or at least prohibit doing harm to members of your trive, would have more chance of surviving and passing on their values to the next generation. A society that encourages its members to eat each other will have a very difficult time surviving -- because, if they don't eat each other first, some other tribe that promotes cooperation will cooperatively eat them all. And of course, now that the majority of the tribes on the planet are united into a handful of mega-tribes (i.e., cultures), we need to be more careful than ever.

So, my secular values are based on my upbringing, but are rooted in sensible policies that developed historically to maximize the survival of humanity. Traditional Christian values, however, are (as far as I can tell) based on fear. As soon as God stops paying attention, Christians -- by their own admission ! -- will immediately turn into hordes of roving murderous rapist cannibals, because they won't have to fear eternal damnation. That scares me. I'm pretty sure that most people are inherently moral (see my opening sentence), but I wonder about that zealous minority...

[Vianne]

I would like to hear from some atheists and agnostics who believe in leading moral lives (helping others, being compassionate, not murdering, stealing, etc.). Why do you lead a moral life?

I don't understand why you would.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I believe in leading a *kind* life, which may or may not be considered moral, due to the highly subjective nature of morality.

Why would I do it? It's positive. It's humane. As a member of the human race, I understand that we're all in the same boat. If we choose to hurt each other, then that's the kind of world we'll live in. There is nobody to slap us on the wrist and tell us to be nice -- we suffer the consequences, good or bad, of the kind of society we create for ourselves.

Similarly, if we actively pursue kind living, then we will endure those consequences as well, and we'll have ourselves to thank for the better society we create for ourselves. It's all an issue of cause and effect. And while you will never be able to control everyone, you can control yourself, and that's one step towards making this boat a little less scary.

[jackrabbit]

I would like to hear from some atheists and agnostics who believe in leading moral lives (helping others, being compassionate, not murdering, stealing, etc.). Why do you lead a moral life?

I don't understand why you would.

Why wouldn't we?

You think that threats of punishment or promises of reward are required?

Those who behave in a moral fashion only to avoid hell are absolutely no different from those who obey the law only to avoid prison. For most of us, neither are necessary.

[mbl020980]

What is truly frightening is that there are people who actually need to ask this question, as if christianity is the source of morality, when even the most superficial examination of the historical record reveals that altruism, charity, forgiveness and love (including marriage) were ideologies that were readily discussed and widely practiced long before the spread of christianity. As a life-long atheist, I can tell you that I lack none of the moral integrity that many christians espouse but often fail to observe. An atheist that practices morality does so because he/she believes it is important to do so, not for fear of going to hell.

[Cathar1950]

Wgreen wrote:

I would like to hear from some atheists and agnostics who believe in leading moral lives (helping others, being compassionate, not murdering, stealing, etc.). Why do you lead a moral life?

I don't understand why you would.

Hello Bill. I don’t know why these heathens would not lead moral lives.
I see morality being grounded in sympathetic relationships.
I remember reading in my college days a book for a philosophy of ethics class by
William K. Frankena, called Ethics. I liked his requirements for a adequate working ethics Reason, justice, mercy, Universality, sympathy, and the means justifying the ends.

I don’t remember who wrote it but one philosopher explained that the ones that follow the divine command theory are not moral but rather they are obedient.
When you say, “I don't understand why you would” I am reminded of this.
I don’t know how any one following commands from God can be considered moral.
It seems easy to become arbitrary.

I remember reading years ago a book about a materialist view of the bible. That might have even been the title of the book. Evil is nonsense, that which doesn’t work or fit in. Good is that which works, fit in or makes sense. Morality ultimately is a product of out experiences and struggles. It is rather pragmatic.

The Persnickety Platypus:

Social species (such as humans) are inderdependant of one another, therefore must act as such in order to survive.

It does seem we are built that way. When babies are not feed and loved by others die even other mammals.

Long before there was Christianity and Moses there were laws.

[Sabranan]

I would like to hear from some atheists and agnostics who believe in leading moral lives (helping others, being compassionate, not murdering, stealing, etc.). Why do you lead a moral life?

I don't understand why you would.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Bill

I believe it's fair to say I'm an atheist since I don't believe in a God or Gods. Since I don't believe it's not true either, I'd have to call myself agnostic. The reason I lead a moral life... Well it's rather difficult not to. After all, why would I do something if I didn't think it was right? Of course, thats "right" by my standards. Might not be right by say Christian standards, or legal standards, or even society's own traditions and values.

The examples you give - (helping others, being compassionate, not murdering, stealing, etc). These are all relative in each situation... I would only help others if they asked for that help. Compassion, depending on the situation might have to give way to justice. Sometimes it's right to kill, or steal, depending on what the outcome is.

I think everybody must do the "moral" thing, because any action an individual takes must be moral to them otherwise they wouldn't do it. Societies moral values and my own happen to be near enough aligned to keep me out of prision and when it's not, I inevitably follow my own path and hide the footprints...