Redemption

[QuestingTheLetum]

Hello

I have just joined here and was curious on something, Can any one truly be redeemed if they have sined? I my self have done allot of things in my short life that I believe I will never be redeemed for the first was loosing faith in god long ago. I just wanted to know what you all thought can a sinner be redeemed truly clean there soul or will they always be tainted by there doings?

[Slopeshoulder]

Hello

I have just joined here and was curious on something, Can any one truly be redeemed if they have sined? I my self have done allot of things in my short life that I believe I will never be redeemed for the first was loosing faith in god long ago. I just wanted to know what you all thought can a sinner be redeemed truly clean there soul or will they always be tainted by there doings?

In Christianity, everyone is redeemable. It's about genuine change of heart. Period.
And I would imiagine that many secular worldviews would think the same way.

[Lux]

Hello

I have just joined here and was curious on something, Can any one truly be redeemed if they have sined? I my self have done allot of things in my short life that I believe I will never be redeemed for the first was loosing faith in god long ago. I just wanted to know what you all thought can a sinner be redeemed truly clean there soul or will they always be tainted by there doings?

In Christianity, everyone is redeemable. It's about genuine change of heart. Period.
And I would imiagine that many secular worldviews would think the same way.

I'm of the opinion that everyone deserves a second chance, from a secular point of view.

From a christian-god-included point of view, I can't imagine that a god that is supposedly all knowing and loves us would condemn someone if it can see that there is true regret and change inside of that person.

[QuestingTheLetum]

Hello

I have just joined here and was curious on something, Can any one truly be redeemed if they have sined? I my self have done allot of things in my short life that I believe I will never be redeemed for the first was loosing faith in god long ago. I just wanted to know what you all thought can a sinner be redeemed truly clean there soul or will they always be tainted by there doings?

In Christianity, everyone is redeemable. It's about genuine change of heart. Period.
And I would imiagine that many secular worldviews would think the same way.

I'm of the opinion that everyone deserves a second chance, from a secular point of view.

From a christian-god-included point of view, I can't imagine that a god that is supposedly all knowing and loves us would condemn someone if it can see that there is true regret and change inside of that person.

So in your eyes there is no unforgivable sins? I have heard allot of unforgivable sins such as suicide. So the question is if god forgives all sins then no "sin" is truly beyond redemption?

[Lux]

So in your eyes there is no unforgivable sins? I have heard allot of unforgivable sins such as suicide. So the question is if god forgives all sins then no "sin" is truly beyond redemption?

Well, first I feel compelled to point out that I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in the god I'm speaking of here (the god of Christianity). I'm simply basing my response on the character that christians claim their god have.

The christian god is, among other things, omniscient. This means it would inevitably know whether there is true change and regret in a person

It is also all-loving and merciful - according to most christians... the Westboro Baptist Church would beg to differ, though.

It seems inconsistent to me to have a god that can know someone is deeply sorry for their mistakes, love that someone and still condemn them.

[theopoesis]

Hello

I have just joined here and was curious on something, Can any one truly be redeemed if they have sined? I my self have done allot of things in my short life that I believe I will never be redeemed for the first was loosing faith in god long ago. I just wanted to know what you all thought can a sinner be redeemed truly clean there soul or will they always be tainted by there doings?

I used to work in a prison. I met people there who had done some of the most horrendous things imaginable. But nothing is as clear as you might expect. Some of the worst offenders were also those who were victims in their youth. Addiction played a major role in many crimes. In other instances, individuals refused to take responsibility for even the smallest offense, and used their entire metal capacities to legitimize their actions. "Sin" is a curious balance of guilt and victimhood, coincidence and intentional action, self-deception and misguidance from others, peer pressure and alienation.

I think a robust understanding of redemption recognizes that all sins can be linked into a single framework (i.e. an atonement theory), but each individual sin also has so many individual aspects. For redemption to be experienced for any "sin" the concrete details of that redemption will need to be tailored to that particular "sin." Speaking from within a Christian perspective, as a chaplain I had to understand that offering redemption to any individual inmate had to be particular to that individual's life and experiences. To escape being "tainted" always, redemption might involve any combination of theological understanding, interpersonal work, spiritual consciousness, emotional resolution, group support, self-forgiveness, prayer and other spiritual disciplines, mental counseling, changes in habit, and repentance.

Perhaps Luther's insight that we are at once just and sinners (simul iustus et peccator) sustained me. In my own life, I have experiences of redemption and forgiveness and also experiences of hell on earth. Over time, the former predominates, but it takes work. And I can only hope the existential tension will be fully resolved in the resurrection.

[Kuan]

Everyone is "redeemable." Yes you need to be perfect to get into heaven but that is why christ atoned for our sins. If you have true regret for what you did, God will forgive you. At least thats the mormon view

[boy-ninja]

So in your eyes there is no unforgivable sins? I have heard allot of unforgivable sins such as suicide. So the question is if god forgives all sins then no "sin" is truly beyond redemption?

Well, first I feel compelled to point out that I'm an atheist, so I don't believe in the god I'm speaking of here (the god of Christianity). I'm simply basing my response on the character that christians claim their god have.

The christian god is, among other things, omniscient. This means it would inevitably know whether there is true change and regret in a person

It is also all-loving and merciful - according to most christians... the Westboro Baptist Church would beg to differ, though.

It seems inconsistent to me to have a god that can know someone is deeply sorry for their mistakes, love that someone and still condemn them.

From the get go I would like to say that I agree with this conclusion but not with the argument. Yes it is true that God is a loving and merciful God but it is also true that sin is our rejection of God. We all sin, Christians included and this offends God, the God who created us, who loves us. When we sin it's like spitting in his face and saying I don't need you. As a result sin has consequences, such as a separation from Gods love and ultimately death.

God is also a just God. His justice is perfect so our sin needs to be brought to account. Looking at what I have said so far it might be feasible to say that redemption is not available to everyone, in fact is is available to no-one because; "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". Romans 3:23

But to arrive at this conclusion would be to ignore one of the greatests aspects of Chirstianity and that is the God is a gracious God. This means that, even though we don't deserve it, God forgives our sins and gives us redemption. But how can God's justice be perfect then? Good question. God's justice means that our sin needs to be punnished. Praise be to God that Jesus offers us this escape. Jesus lived a perfect life and as a result acted in our place. He recieved the entire penalty for my sin, for your sin and for everyone's sin when he died on the cross. So through Jesus we are saved into redemption through God's justice and grace.

So God doesn't just sweep our sin under the carpet. God can't stand our sin and he's not the kind of God to ignore the truth. Instead he deals with sin once and for all through Jesus. - For that he is worthy of all praise.

[omniscience darkness]

[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi i'm new here
dear friends
Compliments of the day

why Jesus is not GOD ?

jesus is not perfect''[/font] below is the references

MAR 8:23 *And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him, Why callest
thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (YOUR reference)
HEB 5:8, Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered; 9 and when he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

2COR 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

MAR 10:19, *Thou knowest the commandments, ... Honour thy father and mother.
LUK 11:27, And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. [SEE ALSO: MAT 12:46-50; JOH 2:3-4]

MAR 10:19, *Thou knowest the commandments, ... Do not steal....
EXO 20:17, *Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, ... nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
MAT 21:2, *Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an *** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

EXO 20:8, *Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work ....
JOH 5:18, *Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath ....
JOH 9:4, I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. ... 6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay ... 14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

LEV 5:1, And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.
MAT 27:13, *Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee? 14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly. [SEE ALSO: MAR 14:60-61]

DEU 6:5, *And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
MAR 15:34, *And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [SEE ALSO: MAT 27:46]

DEU 6:13, *Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
MAT 5:34, *But I say unto you, Swear not at all....

MAR 1:4, *John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. ... 9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.*
*If Jesus was without sin he had no need for "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." - p.b.

YHWH can be tempted

DEU 6:16, Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

JOB 2:3, And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

ACT 15:10, Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SEE ALSO: EXO 17:2; MAL 3:15; MAT 4:7]

plus the temptation story of Jesus already shows very explicitly that Jesus is not perfect.
PLease do compare with James 1:13 (Codex Sinacticus)

Jesus is not god

ISA 43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

MAR 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. ... 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

JOH 14:28, Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

JOH 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1COR 15:25, For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. ... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

COL 3:1, If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1TIM 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[SEE ALSO: ISA 45:5; MAT 20:23, 24:36, 27:46; MAR 16:19; LUK 2:52; JOH 5:19, 8:28,40, 16:28; ACT 2:22, 13:23, 17:30-31; ROM 1:3; 2TIM 2:8; HEB 1:1-3, 2:9-18; 1PET 3:21-22, REV 22:16.]

YHWH creates evil

ISA 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil.* I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

JER 18:11, *Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: ....

(SEE ALSO: GEN 3:1; JUDG 9:23; JOB 42:11; JER 18:11; EZE 20:25; AMO 3:6)

warmest regards
enjoy

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE]

[Kuan]

[font=Comic Sans MS]Hi i'm new here
dear friends
Compliments of the day

why Jesus is not GOD ?

jesus is not perfect''[/font] below is the references

MAR 8:23 *And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him, Why callest
thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (YOUR reference)
HEB 5:8, Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered; 9 and when he was made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

2COR 5:21, For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

MAR 10:19, *Thou knowest the commandments, ... Honour thy father and mother.
LUK 11:27, And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. [SEE ALSO: MAT 12:46-50; JOH 2:3-4]

MAR 10:19, *Thou knowest the commandments, ... Do not steal....
EXO 20:17, *Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, ... nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
MAT 21:2, *Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an *** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

EXO 20:8, *Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work ....
JOH 5:18, *Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath ....
JOH 9:4, I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work. ... 6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay ... 14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

LEV 5:1, And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity.
MAT 27:13, *Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee? 14 And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly. [SEE ALSO: MAR 14:60-61]

DEU 6:5, *And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
MAR 15:34, *And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [SEE ALSO: MAT 27:46]

DEU 6:13, *Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
MAT 5:34, *But I say unto you, Swear not at all....

MAR 1:4, *John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. ... 9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.*
*If Jesus was without sin he had no need for "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." - p.b.

YHWH can be tempted

DEU 6:16, Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

JOB 2:3, And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

ACT 15:10, Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[SEE ALSO: EXO 17:2; MAL 3:15; MAT 4:7]

plus the temptation story of Jesus already shows very explicitly that Jesus is not perfect.
PLease do compare with James 1:13 (Codex Sinacticus)

Jesus is not god

ISA 43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

MAR 6:1, And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. ... 5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

MAR 10:18, And Jesus said unto him,Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

JOH 14:28, Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

JOH 20:17, Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

1COR 15:25, For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. ... 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

COL 3:1, If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1TIM 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[SEE ALSO: ISA 45:5; MAT 20:23, 24:36, 27:46; MAR 16:19; LUK 2:52; JOH 5:19, 8:28,40, 16:28; ACT 2:22, 13:23, 17:30-31; ROM 1:3; 2TIM 2:8; HEB 1:1-3, 2:9-18; 1PET 3:21-22, REV 22:16.]

YHWH creates evil

ISA 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil.* I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

JER 18:11, *Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: ....

(SEE ALSO: GEN 3:1; JUDG 9:23; JOB 42:11; JER 18:11; EZE 20:25; AMO 3:6)

warmest regards
enjoy

"How well we know ,what profitable superstition this Fable of christ has been for us." Pope Leo X (1513-1521)[/SIZE]

What does this have to do with the OP?